Talk:De Lorean Motor Company

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[edit] commercial use?

Why is a commercial link included on this page?

[edit] Move to De Lorean Motor Company?

Shouldn't this article really be moved to De Lorean Motor Company? De Lorean as a concept was probably a good idea at a time when the man, the car, and the car company all shared a page...but it seems like now, this really should just refer to the company itself. Any thoughts? --Milkmandan 08:59, 2005 Jan 27 (UTC)

agreed--Detriment 17:57, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Also, I think it makes sense to redirect De Lorean to De Lorean DMC-12 if these pages get moved—my experience is that when people say De Lorean, they mean the car, not the company. --Milkmandan 08:09, 2005 Jan 28 (UTC)

Well, I tried to move this, and the admins want a more formal vote called. This is sortof a backwater page at the moment, but I suppose I jumped the gun. So, votes to move De Lorean to De Lorean Motor Company? Clearly, I support. --Milkmandan 07:39, 2005 Jan 28 (UTC)

Support. I agree with Milkmandan's original comment. SamH|Talk 11:22, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

  • I normally agree with Milkmandan's edits and comments but I wonder: would a newbie searching for info on the company go to De Lorean or De Lorean Motor Company? I tend to think the former. Sorry—decline here. Stombs 21:23, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
De Lorean is nearly universally used to describe the car, not the company. Shouldn't it redirect to the De Lorean DMC-12 instead? --Milkmandan 21:31, 2005 Jan 28 (UTC)
I think that De Lorean should be a disambig to the company (at De Lorean Motor Company, its proper name), the car, and the person, as well as anything or anyone else that might share that name. SamH|Talk 21:46, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Maybe SamH's solution is best because I agree with Milkmandan that some would search for the car under De Lorean, but there will be those who know less about the subject that might search for the car, the company or JZD. Stombs 02:40, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)
Agree--Pmeisel 17:01, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Agree, the disambig could address the spelling variations as well. --Detriment 04:01, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

For what may turn out to be an interesting extention to this debate goto Wikipedia:Requested_moves#De Lorean → De Lorean Motor Company and vote again. Philip Baird Shearer 16:35, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Patents

I did a quick patent search for De Lorean (which, oddly, are all under Delorean—whatever). Some of these may be relevant, but I really don't have the energy to sort through them right now. --Milkmandan 14:17, 2005 Jan 31 (UTC)

1       6,142,320  Full-Text        Method of storing elongated implements between corner side walls, a holding member, and a floor
2       D283,882        Full-Text       Automobile
3       4,394,050       Full-Text       Apparatus for securing an article to a plastic frame-like structure
4       4,383,818       Full-Text       Molding process
5       4,382,626       Full-Text       Attachment of a stainless steel outerbody to a glass reinforced plastic inner body
6       4,378,658       Full-Text       Mounting for a vehicle door
7       4,373,885       Full-Text       Vacuum system for a moving production line
8       D260,510        Full-Text       Automobile wheel
9       4,042,746       Full-Text       Composite material and method of forming
10      4,034,137       Full-Text       Composite sheet structure and method for manufacturing same
11      4,026,747       Full-Text       Composite tubing
12      4,013,102       Full-Text       Composite tubing
13      3,975,492       Full-Text       Method to produce 3-dimensional matrix surface
14      3,944,704       Full-Text       Composite structure

[edit] Page move

(from WP:RM)

[edit] De Lorean → De Lorean Motor Company

Short discussion already took place at the De Lorean talk page. The target already has a history of redirects because of misspellings and a previous attempt to move. Consensus is to put disambig at old De Lorean page. Milkmandan 14:06, 2005 Jan 31 (UTC)

  • Oppose. DMC was set up to make cars which were called De Lorean. There should be a primary topic disambig at the start for the De Lorean DMC-12 car. Using equal disambig in cases like this should be avoided. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 14:22, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • This is a prime example while this RM is a mess at the moment: Tony Sidaway did you go and look at the page? If you had, you would have seen that there was no move template so as it stood at the moment the people who watched the "De Lorean" page would have had no idea that a debate about an aledged consensus on talk:De Lorean was being debated on this page. (I have just added it). How did you come to an informed position without reading the debate by people who are interested in the subject and probably know more about it than you and I, or if you did read the debate why did you not add the template to warn them that you were going to vote against most of them on another page? Philip Baird Shearer
    • Phil, please do not blame me for failing to put a move template up for a move that I did not propose and do not support, and please do not falsely claim that I have not visited Talk:De Lorean and read the discussion there or that if I had done so I should have performed a piece of housekeeping that the proponent had failed to do. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 02:13, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I did not claim that you either visited or did not visit the page. You have now explained that you did, but that you did not add the template because "I did not propose and do not support" and I believe you. However this is not supposed to be a competition to score points against an opposition. It is supposed to be a debate which ends in a consensus. Surely if one has contributed to a number of these polls and if one is the first to cast a vote, one ought to help out if one see an admission on the page to be moved, because many people who are proposing the move will be doing it for the first time and so it is easy for them to make a mistake? Philip Baird Shearer 10:14, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Philip, please stop repeatedly casting around for a reason to assume bad faith. I repeat: I did not propose this move, I did not have a duty to, and nor did I, carry out an inspection to make sure that the move had been correctly proposed. I seldom get angry, but I'm angry now. Take you revolting, false and unjustified insinuations elsewhere. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 15:19, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Tony, I don't understand why you think the De Lorean company is the predominant topic, and that equal disambig should be avoided. And also, the car was not named De Lorean, it was named DMC-12. SamH|Talk 18:18, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • The tale of DMC is the most interesting thing about De Lorean. On Wikipedia, we go by popular names, not "official names". Most people know that the car in Back to the Future was a De Lorean, nobody gives two hoots that the manufacturer called it the DMC-12. Equal disambig should always be avoided where possible because it's annoying. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 00:24, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • Regarding the name of the car, we use the name DMC-12 in the De Lorean articles, so to avoid confusion, I think it's best to stick to that name when talking here. It's also the more factually correct name. But that's just a minor issue. However, you say that "the tale of DMC is the most interesting thing about De Lorean.". It may be so in your assessment, but I don't think we should force that assessment on all Wikipedia readers who search for De Lorean. Anyway, even if it could be proven that the De Lorean Motor Company is the most interesting topic of the name "De Lorean", that still wouldn't make it the predominant topic. I hope you'll change your mind. SamH|Talk 10:27, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • Sorry about the confusion with the missing template—that was my fault. I totally spaced putting it on there when I listed it here. Nevertheless, the story behind the car really is mostly listed on the De Lorean DMC-12 page. The De Lorean (Motor Company) page is, rightly so, devoted primarily to the development and fall of the company. --Milkmandan 04:42, 2005 Feb 1 (UTC)
  • Support. Philip Baird Shearer 16:39, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. SamH|Talk 17:53, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Detriment 22:25, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • If the car was not named De Lorean, why is this move even under debate? Oppose. ADH (t&m) 01:21, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)
Don't think you understand; This article is not about the car. There is already an entry for the car, De Lorean DMC-12. There is also an entry for John De Lorean. The article under debate, titled "De Lorean", is about the company, "De Lorean Motor Company" which should be it's title. --Detriment 02:46, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Don't think you understand; that's precisely my point. ADH (t&m) 07:28, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification (ehem)...if your point is that the article should be titled "De Lorean Motor Company", then why are you opposing?
  • Support. A company is a company and a car is a car. --Pmeisel 01:46, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • I think Support. A question for clarification. After the move, De Lorean would become a disambiguation page with links to both De Lorean DMC-12 (the car) and to De Lorean Motor Company? If that is true, then I support completely. older≠wiser 03:09, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)
  • I proposed that (De Lorean to become a disambig) at Talk:De Lorean and it was well supported, so I imagine that is what will happen. SamH|Talk 10:08, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • I Support. I agree with Pmeisel. De Lorean, and De Lorean Motor Company are two different things. De Lorean is a car. De Lorean Motor Company is a company.CJS102793 01:35, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. De Lorean should be a disambiguation page to the separate articles about car, company and man. (For a long time, both car and company were on the same page at that location, but it has recently been split). —Morven 02:18, Feb 3, 2005 (UTC)
Exactly, car, company, and man. Each is an interesting story in its own right, and there were a lot of people who thought the DMC12 an interesting car and Delorean/DeLorean/De Lorean a fascinating man, but thought the company story the least interesting and saddest of the three. Almost bought a De Lorean and a liveaboard boat with my then girlfriend -- wish I had all three now. --Pmeisel 02:44, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Concise title leaves no room for misunderstandings. Daeron 07:03, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Support Milkmandan's submission for disambiguation page. Stombs 12:34, Feb 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Misc

The bit about mesmerizing Thatcher's government is spurious - the deal for the creation of the plant was arranged with the previous Labour government, and entailed heavy government subsidy, something completely at odds with both Thatcherism and capitalism.

Any chance of a photo of one?2toise 12:56, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

How about a detail shot - the steering column - specifically the little drawer that was just the right size for about three, maybe four, packets of cocaine. I sat in a De Lorean once, and that's the thing that sticks in my mind. ;Bear 04:25, 2004 Apr 8 (UTC)

Har har. Here's the owner's manual in PDF format, with no coke compartment to be found. There is an ashtray, a compartment behind the driver's seat, and a passenger-side glove compartment. Besides, he was acquitted of trying to sell $24,000,000 worth (in 1984 dollars) of cocaine, way more than would fit in the steering column. --Arteitle 22:53, Apr 9, 2004 (UTC)

I wonder if moving the article from "De Lorean" to "DeLorean" was appropriate, given that in the original owner's manual I linked to above, it's always written with the space, as it is on the emblems on the body of the car itself (see pictures here). Though it's often written without one, these sources would suggest that the article should include the space. --Arteitle 19:11, Apr 26, 2004 (UTC)

I note that even enthusiasts of the cars spell it without a space in their pages that you cite, though. One would have thought that they at least would pick the 'right' version, given how much such people tend to be sticklers for the correct vs common version. References to without-a-space outnumber with-a-space sixteen to one online. However, I'll do some more research and if it seems that the official version was unambigously always with a space, I'll put it back -- no change is irreversible on Wikipedia, after all.
Update: it seems that in official DMC publications that a half-space was used. See http://www.dmcnews.com/faq/img/docs/doc_11c.gif (part of the dealer information pack), for instance. There is space between De and Lorean, but it is not a full inter-word space either. I wonder if this is the source of the confusion; that neither a full space nor no space are correct? —Morven 20:21, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

That seems reasonable. The owner's manual was turned into a PDF, which may have meant that if half-spaces were used, they were reinterpreted as full spaces. I can't tell if the window sticker uses a half or a full space, but there is a space in "De Lorean". But you're right that usually it's typed without the space on the web. --Arteitle 01:14, Apr 27, 2004 (UTC)

This archive from the DeLorean Mailing List mentions the confusion (search for "spelling problems"). A few quotes:

  • It depends on when the name De Lorean was written. John changed his name from Delorean to De Lorean to sound french...so the book "Grand Delusions" states. Since it is his name and his car I would say that the correct spelling is De Lorean! (That is unless he decides to change it again :)
  • Part of the confusion of the spelling of DeLorean (my preference) comes, no doubt from the use of the stylized letters in the logo. I have the window stickers to both my original 81 and my present 83 and there it is printed with what appears to be, at best, a half space between the e and the folowing L.
  • And the correct answer is A because John always signs his mail as John Z. De Lorean. Not only but also have a look at the name badge on the bonnet if you have an 1982 car, there is clearly a gap, and the original company in Dunmurry spelt it that way on their letter headings etc.

--Arteitle 01:31, Apr 27, 2004 (UTC)

Do you happen to know at what point Delorean became De Lorean for John? In historical contexts we probably want to use the correct version at the time. I'll definitely be changing the car name back, at least, since it seems that official company literature uses a space. —Morven 07:16, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Y'know, not to beat this horse again, but JZD's autobiography is clearly titled DELOREAN by John Z. DeLorean. This spelling is consistant throughout the book, including references to his parents, and the transcript of United States of America, Plaintiff, v. John Z. DeLorean, Defendant. Also, I had him autograph the owner's manual of my DMC-12, and it's signed DeLorean - cursive with the "e" and "l" connected. This, added to the fact that DeLorean is far and away the most commonly expressed version, leads me to believe that our current versions are incorrect. Oh, and Grand Delusions, and Dream Maker also display "John Z. DeLorean" on their covers. What say?

--Detriment 20:45, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It might be a typesetting thing. I don't remember seeing intercapitalized words in the 1970s (with the exception of Pontiac LeMans), and it seems to have crept in with word processors and less advanced typesetting programs in the 1980s (e.g. word processors which could not do half-spaces). I personally say there was a half-space in typesetting, and that that should be written with a full space in contexts such as Wikipedia. In period magazines I remember there being a space. The absence of a space in the transcript could well be to do with De Lorean's actual name on his birth certificate, which I understand did not have a space. Subsequent uses, with the intercapitalized form, could well be a carryover from bad '80s typesetting that we've inherited. This doesn't answer your autograph point, though I do note that my own signature omits a space between my Christian name and surname, and I definitely wouldn't want people to spell it without that space! Stombs 21:21, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
I've had a look at some DMC stock certificates, and it's clearly De Lorean, as is the name on the front of the manufacturing plant. The car has the same format on it's original documentation and bumper. JZD has had patents issued in both forms, but 7 to 2 (searchable) in favor of DeLorean. He's obviously used both versions at various times, and I have to agree with you on your signature argument - actually the one I have looks like "DeL orean", but I won't lobby to add that version to the list. His relatives seem to use DeLorean or Delorean. The typesetting theory is quite speculative, though. I don't know why I'm going on about this or why I really care, but it just strikes me as odd that as a DeLorean owner for years and a member of a few owner's associations, I have always known the car, company, and man as Delorean, or more formally DeLorean, yet wikificially it's De Lorean. Evidence is evidence, but I think if I had my choice, I'd have to go with De Lorean for the car and company, DeLorean for the person. --Detriment 04:01, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Well, when he first retired from GM, among other interests he owned a GM dealership in Cleveland. I believe his personal ownership is historical, but the dealership retains the name of that era when he procured it: DeLorean with the second capital but no space. The transformation of his name was a topic of the time as well. --Pmeisel 02:56, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I just added an image, since two of them showed up at the weekly Garden Grove, California car show. This one was the more stock of the two. The other was completely done up as the Back to the Future car, complete with external wiring harness, internal controls, external stuff around the engine compartment, etc. I believe this is the car that I saw recently sold on eBay. Couldn't get a photo, though, too many people milling around ... —Morven 02:31, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

Do you have a photo of the BTTF car? That page could do with one! Thanks, Mark Richards 23:14, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Prototype?

Does anyone have any information about the 2005 - "prototype"? Here's the image link: http://s89196484.onlinehome.us/files/delorean2005large.JPG —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.250.31.176 (talk) 20:51, 17 January 2008 (UTC)