Talk:De Havilland

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[edit] Gypsy - Gipsy

Discussion of de versus De becomes tiresome, though I do agree it's important. But perhaps a diversion is in order.

In reading the article I was surprised to see the model name spelt 'Gypsy': I'd previously seen 'Gipsy' relating to de Havilland engines. Anyone care to delve into this? Citroënist 17:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Lowercase "de"

What's the authority for a lowercase "de" in the company name? Note that the company logo included as a graphic has the "DH" symbols. Gene Nygaard 13:59, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

It must come from his name Geoffrey de Havilland, however both ICAO and Transport Canada (type GFYN in the box named mark) show it as De Havilland.
Can you cite any authority for your changes to various De Havilland articles? Please reply on Talk:De Havilland, and note the comment there and the logo on the De Havilland page. I think you should backtrack and remove your templates. Gene Nygaard 18:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi Gene.
When written in full, the correct name is 'de Havilland' but it is written as 'DH' when abbreviated. I changed the pages because the name spelt with a 'D' didn't look right. As for my sources I have just checked a considerable number of [Aeroplane Monthly] magazines and they spell it with a small 'd' as de Havilland.
I'm not sure about when the name starts a sentence though as I can't find an example ATM - it's possible it should be capitalised then, but not being an expert in Norman-French, I may have been a bit over zealous!
BTW, the 'template' I used was the one from the top of this (De Havilland) page, which was already there, so I just added it to the others. Ian Dunster 19:29, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
I think I'd go with CambridgeBayWeather's ICAO and Transport Canada rather than some magazine. Can anybody find any other authorities? Certainly it should be "De" at the beginning of a sentence; I suspect it should always be "De". Gene Nygaard 16:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Bombardier Aerospace is the current owner of de Havilland Canada. Google shows that most of the hits on bombardier.com use the lowercase d, so I'll go along with that at least for the Canadian branch. But I still think that at the beginning of a sentence it should be uppercase. Gene Nygaard 16:18, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Canada's Digital Collections, an official government archive site, uses a lowercase d. So does de Havilland Support. I suggest we do the same. ericg ✈ 19:16, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm with eric on this one. de Havilland means "from Havilland". de is always lowercase. Look in any reputable aircraft book. - Emt147 Burninate! 22:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

  • ICAO and Transport Canada are not authoritative sources on correct spelling of aircraft manufacturer names. Aeroplane Monthly, on the other hand, is a reputable publication with respect for and understanding of history. Please refrain from baseless attacks on other editors' good research. There is a significant historical aspect to the de Havilland marque that is completely ignored with the uppercase "De." An article about a century-old British aircraft maker is no place for ignorance of history. - Emt147 Burninate! 05:48, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

"de Havilland" might always be lower case, but the rules of English demand that sentences start with an uppercase letter. "de," "al," "ab," "von," and all the other words used in names are old enough in English that we can get away with capitalizing them at the start of a sentence; things like iPod, etc., are things that aren't so simply done. I strongly suggest we get rid of the lowercase template. --Golbez 02:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Just as strongly, I disagree with changing a person/family's name. If you can't figure out a way to start a sentence with "de Havilland," may I suggest "The de Havilland company" or "Geoffrey de Havilland." Bzuk 03:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC).
We aren't changing their name. In English, "bin Ladin" would be "Bin Ladin" at the start of a sentence, and "bin Ladin" anywhere else. I do believe the same rules apply to "de Havilland." And those options aren't exactly useful for the name of the article, are they? --Golbez 07:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
My suggestion, be creative- find a way not to use de Havilland at the start of a sentence.Bzuk 13:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC).
... You're... You're missing the point which I have now put forth twice. This isn't about starting a sentence. This is about the TITLE OF THE ARTICLE. I think we should get rid of the lowercase template. --Golbez 14:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Again, as stated, before, it's a person's name; this is an exception to the standard rule, and if you check the commentary, that point has been made already and if you can't recognize humour, well so be it. Bzuk 15:23, 19 February 2007 (UTC).