User talk:Dbergan/ghost

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Last Archived: August 22, 2005

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[edit] From User:Dbergan's talk page

[edit] Example of...information rich structures

You said, "Give me an example outside of the case under investigation and show me information-rich structures that we know scientifically arose from ONLY natural laws and randomness."

Ok. Fractals Go read Choas, by James Gliek (1988). Great book. It shreads the irreducible complexity concept, 10yrs prior to the introduction of the ID movement. But it also provides good underpinnings for philosophical concept of ID. Please let me know if you have questions. Oh, btw, fractals and chaos theory helped lead me back to faith.... But I come to ID from a agnostic Deist (not Theist) POV, with a strong background in analytical science.--ghost 21:47, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi ghost. I actually took a college class on chaos theory as part of my math degree and read the book you recommended... and perhaps even more interesting to our discussion, William Dembski was leading researcher in chaos theory. (Says so in the Preface to The Design Revolution.)
Fractals are very interesting, but how do they show that they transmit information? DNA/RNA transmits data to each cell telling it how to function, much like html or C++ code tells your computer how to function. Chaos theory, to the best of my knowledge, is simply the study of non-linear equations and what systems governed by such dynamics would operate like. There isn't any transmission of information, that I know of.
But I'm even more curious as to how Chaos theory brought you from agnosticism to deism. I have several good friends who are deists, as well.
Always glad to discuss such matters. David Bergan 22:19, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Because fractals are arguably the most efficient information storage & transmission system in mathmatics. That's why I was working with Iterated Systems 10yrs ago. And now things are getting interesting. My interests forced me to ask myself a philosophical question: Natural systems are transmitting huge amounts of data. Amounts that appear to exceed the bandwidth needed for reproduction. Therefore, something else is going on. What is it, and why is it happening? This led me to view fractals as the signature of the Divine. But I keep my personal philosophies, ID friendly as they are, tempered by the knowledge that they teeter on the brink of the Razor. I don't want to see ID in my sons' schools. I want them making their own decisions. If those decisions bring them to faith, wonderful. If not, who am I to question the wisdom of Free Will? This is why I end up in both camps.--ghost 12:50, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Interesting. Sounds like the new wave in vector graphics. So fractals can be used to transmit information just like we can use electric impulses, paper and ink, or smoke signals... However that's not the same as an information transmitting mechanism. Just because intelligent beings can encode their message (the picture) in fractals, send it over the internet, and then decode it on the other side isn't saying anything new except that fractals are potentially a much more sophisticated way of doing it that we currently have. Or am I misuderstanding you? David Bergan 21:00, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You're missing my point, my friend. Have a look at the fractal structures in the back of your hand. Interesting how they follow the same patterns of construction as the neural network in your brain. I don't believe in coincidences. What I'm saying is, fractals give us Deists a means of addressing the issue of irreducible complexity. By seeing the fractal patterns repeat on atomic, microscopic, and astronomic levels I find my Lego in the sand....and the universe looks likes it's made out of them....even the sand...and it's beautiful.--ghost 21:39, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Welcome back. 8-) --ghost 5 July 2005 20:13 (UTC)

London? LOL, you know anyone who needs a job in the IT field, have them kick me a resume.--ghost 6 July 2005 15:42 (UTC)

[edit] Signature

Um, Dave, did you change your signature? It now reads A Big Asshole. If so, that's um....interesting.--ghost 19:45, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

LMAO. Ok, np then. ...And I thought I was the only one with a sense of self-depreciating humor. LOL. I was way wrong. Touche.--ghost 19:53, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] From User:a_ghost's page

[edit] Still a little green

Hi ghost. I responded to you on my user page. But since I'm still pretty new to the User talk aspect of wiki, I wasn't sure if it alerted you or not. David Bergan 22:22, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Responded to your latest on my user page. David Bergan 21:13, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Signature

Yeah, I manually changed it for that one post. David Bergan 19:49, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's good to be back. I was off to London for a week and then digging myself out from the pile of work waiting for me when I returned. I appreciate the time and patience you put into this. You've earned everyone's respect and seem to be the only editor who isn't out to win battles. David Bergan 6 July 2005 15:06 (UTC)

What kind of IT job? Where are you located? David Bergan 6 July 2005 16:03 (UTC)