Talk:Dassault Mirage F1

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Contents 1 Okay, it's a start ... 2 Iran's use of ex-Iraqi F1s 3 South African License-Production 4 MiG-23 shot down Mirage F-1CZ - inaccurate

[edit] Okay, it's a start ...

I made a quick run-through doing some basic clean-up and wordsmithing. It needs more, particularly w.r.t. organizing and expanding the info on "Combat History". It seems odd that the first entry is above that section header, and an airplane that "has seen combat with a number of Air Forces in various places around the world" only lists Ecuador's experiences (plus one example of Iraq's). --Askari Mark | Talk 16:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Iran's use of ex-Iraqi F1s

ACIG.org has an article on Iran's use of ex-Iraqi F1s in its war against Afghan drug lords on its eastern border. Apparently, one F1 was damaged by a MANPAD and crash landed on returning to its airbase. I will try to find the article and post it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.237.224.164 (talk) 06:41, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] South African License-Production

Many sources have claimed that Atlas Aircraft of South Africa recieved rights to license produce the Mirage F.1. Some of the sources includes Air Vectors site and IPMS South Afica site, as well as the book Modern Military Aircraft by Bill Gunston. I am going to include this fact in the article, in the South African section.72.146.191.242 16:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I haven't been able to find the claim on the IPMS South Africa site, do you have a link? Nevertheless, even SA did have the rights to produce the Mirage F1, it never exercised them. This is likely due to the advent of the United Nations arms embargo against the country in the late 1970s, which fell into place just as the final Mirage F1s were being delivered from France. There would not have been time for any tooling for licence-production to be exported, while the embargo itself probably legally nullified those same licence-production rights in any case. — Impi 19:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Look at the last sentence on the first page of the article. [1](if this does not take you to the article, looking at the top of the page for something that says Dassault Mirage F1AZ/CZ)

Not only this, many other sources confirm it as well. Does it really matter if theywere never any made under license anyway, just the fact that they were awarded production rights is noteworthy in itself and I believe it should be mentioned. Also, South Africa recieved its Mirages in 1974-1976. The arms embargoes came in the 1980s. That would leave six years for tooling a factory, plenty of time. I don't think that was a reason. Nor do I think they would have particularly cared if their license was revoked, they would have already had the necessary machinery. They could have just produced it anyway. I am going to e-mail Dassault and ask them. I think that would be a satisfactory source for everyone here.SAWGunner89 19:20, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The arms embargo was implemented in 1977, only a year after the final Mirage delivery. It's doubtful there would've been the time for the delivery and installation of tooling and the training of personnel before the gate slammed shut. Setting up a fighter jet production line, even for 1970s vintage aircraft, is a pretty significant and drawn-out process, so I'm angling towards the lack-of-time angle on this. Still, it would be interesting to hear what Dassault's response is. — Impi 08:30, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Still waiting. I am afraid I might have sent it to the wrong section of the company. If I do not hear from them soon, I will send it again, and perhaps try a different section. I don't think it is their fault it is taking so long to get back.SAWGunner89 16:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MiG-23 shot down Mirage F-1CZ - inaccurate

A Mirage was damaged and forced to make an emergency landing after an engagement with a MiG-23 during the war in Angola. The damage to the aircraft was substantial enough to warrant its withdrawal from service. The pilot was seriously injured by an ejection seat malfunction during the hard landing. This event highlighted a gap in the SAAF's capabilities -- an apparent lack of a BVR AAM such as the Super 530 or Sparrow. This handicap was the result of the arms embargo but it is unclear why ARMSCOR had not developed a native MRAAM. The SAAF was able to limit the MiG-23's BVR advantage to some extent through changes in mission profile. (Source. Helmer Roemer Heitman's book.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew morkel (talk • contribs) 19:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)