Talk:Dassault Mirage 2000

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Contents 1 Three-view diagram 2 There is way too less information abt this fighter 3 Copyediting 4 Requested move 4.1 Survey 4.1.1 Survey - Support votes 4.1.2 Survey - Oppose votes 4.2 Discussion 5 Mirage 2000 in Indian fiction 6 Negative stability 7 Removed anecdotal information section 7.1 In flight 7.1.1 Preparation and start 7.1.2 Combat and avionic 7.1.3 Acrobacy and return

[edit] Three-view diagram

Three-view diagram of 'Mirage 2000' is actually of 1950s era Mirage III.

Good catch, I removed it from the article.--Sylvain Mielot 18:01, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Here's a good site with info on history/background of the Mirage 2000 & 4000, and another site with more technical data. -- Adeptitus 17:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] There is way too less information abt this fighter

This fighter is having far less technical information here. I can add some.

Good job & kudos to Ajay ijn! -- Adeptitus 18:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyediting

I took a rather quick pass through the article doing basic spelling and grammar clean-up, and made a few corrections. I'm sure I didn't catch it all, but at least it's a start. --Askari Mark | Talk 18:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I had a pass through, all looks OK to me. I removed a whole bunch of broken links, mainly to names of specific weapons systems, radar pods, engines etc. If someone wants to go write all those articles, they can revert my edit, otherwise the whole thing was peppered with red. In terms of correct English, I'd say the "Copyedit" tag could be removed. I don't know if it comes into the same remit, but coming into the article as an interested layman, I found the long list of Mirage 2000 variants and exactly what brand and mark of radar they use/d to be quite boring. Would it be worth splitting off a "Mirage 2000 Variants" page if we want to keep all the information? It sort of kills the readability of the page at the moment.Brickie 17:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that the Variants section contains both the primary models as well as the "sales designations" of specific equipment configurations sold to various foreign customers. There is also too much use of bullet lists. Askari Mark | Talk 18:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd better let someone more acquainted with the subject matter tackle that - my instinct would be to hive off a page of "Mirage 2000 variants" or some such, but I don't know whether that's policy or not. Brickie 11:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mirage 2000 in Indian fiction

The Mirage 2000 has been featured in Indian military fiction. In the book Op Kartikeya the story centers around a Mirage 2000 fighter pilot.Sarkar2 01:59, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Why there is no mention to the event in October 1996 when a greek Mirage 2000EG shot down a F-16D of the Turkish Air Force?

[edit] Negative stability

Hey, this article claims that this was the first fighter jet with negative static stability; so does the article on the F16. Only one can be right! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.214.114 (talk) 05:28, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed anecdotal information section

I removed the following text from the article as it contains only anecdotal information about one flight. --McSly 03:19, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In flight

This article or section needs copy editing for grammar, style, cohesion, tone or spelling. You can assist by editing it now. A how-to guide is available. (October 2007)

Mirage 2000-5 was, in 2000, the subject of an Andrea Nativi (director of RID magazine) article about a flight test made from Istres airbase^[1]. At that time Mirage 2000 was proposed to Italian AM as stop-gap interceptor (waiting EF-2000), in competition with F-16ADF (that in 2001 won the contest).

The aircraft tested was one of the modified Mirage 2000C RDI updated to 2000-5 standards. This operation led to use the avionics of RDI interceptor to replace that of the first 37 RDM, updated to RDI standards.

[edit] Preparation and start

The cockpit's space was found quite cramped (Nativi is around 1,9 m tall), but the ergonomy was 'excellently arranged', with all the commands immediately availables. The right flank consolles had several controls for the fuel tanks, Ulysse 52 INS and other systems. Left side panels had radio, engine throttle and other controls. Frontal consolles had HDD (Head Down Display), Artificial horizon and several alarm panels. Stick had HOTAS commands, with 9 different commands (another five were on the throttle).

Mirage 2000 took off without external power sources: it had no APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) but for the start were simply used the batteries, that were made enough powerful for this task, with 40 A/hour. Idle consumption was found at only 17kg/min while waiting to the take-off, then the fighter at 12,7 t (including internal fuel and one 1,300 l auxiliary tank) accelerated quickly, rotated after 12 seconds, and took off after 700 m, at 145 knots. Undercarriage was retracted within 270 knts. Cockpit insonorization was excellent. The aircraft was docile and quick at the same time (FCS system forbidden too hard rolls and turns to avoid G-LOC) and HUD had a special feature, a TV-screen that displayed FLIR images and other datas, in the lower part. If the mission needed high altitude interceptions, Mirage 2000 can reach mach 2 and 15 km ceiling within four min, climbing at over 280-300 m/sec. with an even better performances than F-104S (4-5 min to 12 km/mach 2). The agility at high speed could allowed 3 g turns at mach 2, without loosing speed^[2] and despite the relatively weak engine (F-104G, as example is capable to pull 2 g at 1,8 mach sustained).^[3]

[edit] Combat and avionic

Mirage 2000 was tested against an Alpha Jet E that acted as 'boogey'. Alpha Jet approached to Mirage and thank to its very small RCS (just 1,5 sq.m when the standard for a fighter is around 5), was seen at 'only' 45 miles, while another Mirage could be seen at over 50. At 20 miles there was a MICA simulated shot. Alpha Jet descended to 300 m and Mirage to 3,000 m. Despite the lower altitude, the target was seen at 38 miles, with a perfect lock-on at 33 (around 60 km). Despite many evasive counter-manoeuvres there was another lock-on for MICA missiles. In the final close combat, Mirage still outclassed Alpha Jet, being able to pull 9 G turns and AoA up to 29°.

As for avionic capabilities, this test displayed all the new performances of Mirage 2000-5. With RDY radar the maximum range was 150 km to an airliner and 90 to a fighter. With MICA engagements there was the possibility to update (in a cone of 40 degree in the forward sector) two missiles at once with datalink, and fire another two without datalink update. The IR MICA missiles can be slaved to radar. The display targets presentation was made with rectangles and triangles depending by situations (friendly or foe). Gun engagements were typically (in the air-to air mode) at 500 m range. The cartographic mode radar system allowed so see from 1x1 miles to 6x6.

Modes already possible were TWS, close combat mode (with HUD selected with 10 miles range, 15 with Mk 2), telemetric (Air to Air and Air to Ground mode), Tracking, and many other sub-modes.

With the already planned RDY Mk 2 radar several improvements were possibles. RDY Mk 2, not yet available in 2000, have 10-15% more air-to air range, the capability to update four MICA at the same time+ another two not updated, allowing to engage up to six targets at the same time. For air-surface mode, Mk 2 have Doppler Beam Sharpering and TERPROM.

[edit] Acrobacy and return

About the flight capabilities, Mirage 2000 was tested with severe manoeuvres. With external loads it is still capable to roll up to 150° sec, pulling 6 g and reaching 20 AoA. Thanks to the low wingloads on this flight, Mirage was tested with climbs up to 85 degrees and tail slides. A 360 degrees turn was performed at 3,000m/10,000 ft.: it was started at 442 knts, pulling 8,5 g sustained, with an exit speed still of 370 knts, despite the delta configuration (that causes high drag) and the not so powerful engine (compared to the F-16s one). Another manoeuvre was a double split ('S' manoeuvre) started from 2,700 m and 700kmh/380 knts, pulling 7 g sustained. Mirage always displayed excellent controllability, and it was still stable flying at over 500 knts over the sea. The real shortcoming was the high fuel consumption at low altitudes.

The flight lasted for 70 minutes, and less than 500 kg fuel remained at landing. The aircraft approached at 130 knts, and displayed excellent stable thanks to the wide undercarriage. INS displayed 0,2 miles (320 m) error (270 m/hour), despite the manoeuvres at high Gs. Older INS models took even 2-3 miles for every hour during 'normal' flights.

Despite this good presentation, the french proposal for 28 new-built Mirage 2000-5 (22 single seats and 6 double seats) was rejected, mainly for the higher cost (25%) compared to 32 F-16ADF (second hand machines).

---

NO. It contents not only 'anecdotal info about one flight' it contents a whole array of info about last generation Mirage 2000-5, expecially with avionics. Not exactly the same thing. Also, you have deleted at least three other important tecnical info in the rest of article. So sorry, i do not see how you have improved article, instead you have worsened it.--Stefanomencarelli 09:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)