Talk:Darren Clarke

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Until some one can work his birth place in to the main article cleanly (as required by the style manual), I'm removing his birth place. He was born in Dungannon, County Tyrone. Trevor1 05:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Legend

Well done Darren. You were magnificent today (Ryder Cup Sunday). The world mourns your loss and celebrates your skill and humanity.

[edit] Confusion over Irishness

Many Northern Irishmen are proudly Irish, but are also - of course - British citizens. There is much confusion about this - including on Wiki (see entry on Eddie Irvine for example). To avoid confusion it is useful to identify clearly both the Irishness and the British Citizenship. It is factually correct to do so and good encyclopaedic practice. PaddyBriggs 10:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any confusion other than your edits here and at Eddie Irvine. Mentioning that he was born in Northern Ireland is sufficient to establish his citizenship of the UK. Catchpole 10:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Plus, the tricolour paragraph isn't strictly correct. Clarke, Harrington and McGinley were pictured with a tricolour. The tricolour was for Harrington and McGinley, Clarke just happened to be holding it with them. To say he "considers himself Irish and proudly displays the Irish tricolour at events like the Ryder cup" is entirely unverified and point of view. If that paragraph exists at all it should read "Clarke was pictured holding a tricolour at the Ryder Cup with Harrington and McGinley", and nothing else. Stu ’Bout ye! 11:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

With respect to Catchpole the place of birth of anybody does not establish their nationality or their citizenship (see Wiki's own entry on the subject of nationality). Mary McAleese, the President of the Republic of Ireland was born in Northern Ireland. Doesn't make her British!! However Darren Clarke presumably has a British Passport and is certainly legally a British subject. But he is also Irish (1) Because Northern Ireland is part of the island of Ireland and (2) Because he has clearly , as others have pointed out, declared himself proud to be Irish (and why not!). PaddyBriggs 17:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the infobox, the nationality should be Northern Ireland as per other golfer articles. They don't British, they say NI, England, Scotland or Wales. A golfer competes for an individual home nation, not the UK. Stu ’Bout ye! 09:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with the last entry. All British sportsmen have "British" as their legal nationality. You cannot have a Scottish or a Northern Irish or a Welsh or an English passport. In addition they may compete for their country of origin/birth in certain tournaments such as the World Cup of Golf where the individual countries of the UK compete under their own name rather than together as "Great Britain and NI". So Mr Clarke's legal nationality is British. That's what it says on his passport. In addition he may compete for Northern Ireland (although actually I don't think that he ever has) just as Monty plays for Scotland or Nick Faldo for England. My amendment to the info box makes this clear. Any visitor to the entry would not be confused if they see against Darren British (Flag of Northern Ireland Northern Ireland).

PaddyBriggs 09:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the infobox isn't clear, but my reading is that it is saying who he represents in golf. In this case it is Northern Ireland. Or Scotland for Monty etc. See this or the scoreboard on this page or this or this. It is not stating his actual nationality, of course you can't have a Welsh, Northern Irish, Scottish or English passport. Stu ’Bout ye! 10:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
'Darren Clarke presumably has a British Passport'- "Presumably"? Sorry, but your presumptions do not cut it. Internalise this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Attribution#Reliable_sources 89.100.195.42 21:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
'All British sportsmen have "British" as their legal nationality.'- Indeed they do. The minor matter of no part of Ireland being a part of Britain now, or ever in history, begs the question: just what has any of this to do with a man born in Ireland? 89.100.195.42 22:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
'You cannot have a Scottish or a Northern Irish or a Welsh or an English passport.'-Indeed you cannot, which is why everybody born in Ireland is entitled to an Irish Passport. It would appear that you are struggling to fit Ireland in as a province in your British nationalist framework. Long may it continue! 89.100.195.42 22:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Anyone born in Northern Ireland, while they may be entitled to claim an Irish passport, are subjects of the UK and are British unless specifically declared otherwise by revoking their British citizenship. Ben W Bell talk 08:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Anyone born in Ireland, while they may be entitled to claim a UK passport, is Irish unless specifically declared otherwise by revoking their Irish citizenship. 82.198.140.23 16:17, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

<reduce indent> Sorry to be facetious, but it's interesting that Gerry Adams is only classified as "Irish" and there aren't any objections to that. I mean, he was even a member of Parliament in Westminster. Let's see... Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Bobby Sands.... all good British citizens..... That must make the Provisional IRA a good solid British organisation as it was founded in Belfast and was first headed by a Londoner! Wow! Let's see the pro-British editors go around WP and edit all those pages. Conversely, the Orange Order, Ian Paisley, the Shankhill Road Butchers, and the Lambeg drum should only every be described as Irish? Let's see the pro-Irish editors do that and try to be serious about it. (actually, I think Ian Paisley does call himself Irish and doesn't see it as contradictory with British). The NI situation requires some flexibility in description...maybe you guys should try some of that. Hughsheehy 09:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

It is worth noting that the Irish government has redefined the word "Ireland" to mean the state that it governs - that's its official name. Northern Ireland, therefore, is not part of "Ireland" but is its own seperate entity, known as Northern Ireland. Personally, I don't believe that governments have the ability to alter language, but there are those who disagree. TharkunColl 16:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Ireland was always its official name. Hughsheehy 00:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)