User talk:Daniel/Sardaka-TheRingess

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Contents 1 [First discussion; 10 Sept] 2 [Second discussion; 19 Sept] 3 [Third discussion; 24 Sept]

[edit] [First discussion; 10 Sept]

Hi Daniel. I wonder if you can help me with a little problem I've been having. Another editor, TheRingess, has been following me around ever since I started writing articles, which has been for six months. I've done five articles and she has turned up at five out of five, the minute I finished writing them.

Now, I've been advised that it's normal for this to happen sometimes, if an editor has done a "problem edit" and the others think they have to keep an eye on him. That's ok, I have no problem with that, but it's been going on for six months and I think it's time for it to stop. I know the ropes now and I don't think anyone has to keep an eye on me anymore. It's got to the point where I'm looking over my shoulder all the time. If I want to write a new article, I have to ask myself how TR will react to it, because I know she'll turn up five minutes later. In one case, she turned up immediately and listed the article for deletion immediately, without bothering to discuss the problems with me, so it's not just an academic matter.

A couple of days ago I left her a good faith message, asking her to stop it, but she just deleted the message without replying. I'm getting nowhere with her. I just want someone to get her off my back. I don't need to be supervised anymore. She won't listen to me; maybe she'll listen to you.

Sorry to take up so much of your time with this lengthy message.

Sardaka 09:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, my apologies for the delay in responding - I've been a tad busy in real life, unfortunately.

I do notice that this user has no intention whatsoever of discussing the issues at hand. Naturally, this limits any possible dispute resolution attempts. I haven't had a chance to investigate this fully, due to my busy timetable at the moment, but my preliminary look at the situation seems to be that your concerns may be fully justified. Reading WP:HA#Wikistalking, which you paraphrase above, it is permissable to follow users around if they're editing disruptively, which quite clearly isn't the case (if it was, the other user must be engaged in dialogue about your 'disruption', but from the previously-linked edit that obviously isn't occuring).

As this user obviously isn't going to respond to good faith discussion, I strongly suggest you file a user conduct request for comment, to solicit further input from others with the hope of having the dispute resolved and the behaviour stopped through a consensus of editors. Given you have tried and failed to resolve the dispute (the removed messages) and two users believe that there is an unresolvable problem that exists (you, and more-than-likely myself from what I saw in my preliminary look-about), the requirements for an RfC to proceed are met.

If you do go down this road, clearly set out all evidence of the stalking so that others can investigate and offer an opinion or endorsement on the current situation, and hopefully reach a consensus. If you do file an RfC, please feel free to leave me a note so that I can look over the evidence and possibly endorse the need for the RfC, per this comment. Cheers, Daniel 07:39, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I for one, as someone who has been peripherally involved in this matter, will not endorse such an RFC. I also doubt you would, were you fully aware of the situation, Daniel. Sardaka has been complaining about the TheRingess's conduct since May 10 and has continued to do so on numerous occasions. That's also exactly the reason why TheRingess has stopped responding to Sardaka's messages. This matter should have ended in May, but Sardaka rather ignores the judgement of about a dozen experienced editors. Obviously, Sardaka has now forum shopped his way to your talk page (after thrice at ANI, once at the village pump, once at Medcab, once at Surfdude001's talk page, a few times on Addhoc's talk page, a whole lot of discussion with me, etc. etc.). I don't know how many more times Sardaka (whom I think is a fine contributor beside this matter) needs to hear TheRingess was not out of line (way back in March and April) in their "dispute", but apparently it's still not enough. Anyway, feel free to investigate this very trivial matter and reach your own conclusions.--Atlan (talk) 17:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

"(way back in March and April)" — are you saying that all elements of "stalking" stopped back then, but Sardaka continues to pursue it akin to beating a dead horse? Daniel 23:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, TheRingess is now so weary of this matter, that he avoids any and all contact with Sardaka, which includes editing the same articles. Whatever merit Sardaka's claims had back then, they certainly don't have any right now.--Atlan (talk) 04:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

If Sardaka can show evidence that it's still occuring, then I think an RfC is applicable. My preliminary investigation focused around the time period you mentioned, so I was hoping that any presentation of evidence would show that it is still an issue. Sardaka, do you have diffs/links to recent behaviour? Daniel 04:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] [Second discussion; 19 Sept]

Hi. Don't want to nag you, but did you get my recent message about my friend TheRingess? Your page went blank, as you know, and I'm not sure if my message got to you. Please let me know if you didn't get a message about theringess, and I'll leave another one for you. Thanks,

Sardaka 09:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but the thread got archived here. If you wish to continue the discussion, feel free here :) Please note my last response, as I need you to answer that in going forward. Daniel 00:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] [Third discussion; 24 Sept]

Further to the issue of TheRingess "stalking" me, I do not agree with Atlan that it all stopped back in March-April. TR has consistently turned up at my articles right up to the latest one, Oakland Ashram, on July 11th.

When I went to MedCAb -- which apparently is not the right forum for these problems, but that's where everyone told me to go -- there were two other issues: 1) that the listing of my article Shakti Mantras for deletion was in violation of policy, which states that if the article can be improved, it should be done through editing rather that deletion, and 2)that TR has a habit of deleting other people's contributions. So the "stalking" wasn't the only issue, but it was the main one.

I will see about pursuing this matter when I've had a little holiday. At this stage all I can say is "thank you" for your time and attention.

Sardaka 10:28, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

That is true, TheRingess edited your articles right up to July, albeit to a much lesser extent than in March and April. The time at which he showed up also shows that he keeps track of your edits and I can at least understand that that fact bothers you. Keep in mind though, that both your fields of interest include Hindu-related articles and that you can't ban TheRingess from ever editing a Hindu-related article you created. Also, just look at those edits that TheRingess made on Oakland Ashram. He added a reflist and fixed a few links. You constantly cry foul of those perfectly legit edits. At any rate, you have successfully managed to keep TheRingess away from your articles since then, so problem solved if you ask me.--Atlan (talk) 19:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

If I've kept TR away from my articles since then, it may be because I haven't written any articles since then. But my complaints have all been written up in detail at the medCab link on my talk page, so there's no point rehashing it all. You know what my complaints are. At least you're being a bit more civil now. You were almost belligerent before. I was going to send you a message about it, but you've saved me the trouble. I don't see why we can't be on civil terms. At least we communicate, which is more than I can say for some people. (Sorry Daniel, for using your talk page for this exchange.) Sardaka 13:09, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I am going to be a little bit WP:BOLD and move all discussion to User talk:Daniel/Sardaka-TheRingess, for a couple of minor logistical reasons. I hope this is OK with everyone. Please continue with discussion there, and I'll be happy to chime in where necessary/opportune. Cheers, Daniel 09:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)