Talk:D. H. Lawrence

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On searching the Internet, I found different information about D.H. Lawrence wife Frieda von Richthofen. some said she was sister of Manfred von Richthofen and some said she was a cousin. Others said she was daughter of Manfred von Richthofen , but that's impossible since she was born 1879 and he was born 1892. Den fjättrade ankan 11:38, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)


Say, isn't it a bit unobjective to say "D. H. Lawrence was one of the most important authors ..." ?


Contents

[edit] D. H. Lawrence

I don't believe Lydia Beardsall Lawrence, D. H. Lawrence's mother, was a teacher. She had aspirations to become a teacher, but she married Arthur Lawrence, who worked in the coal pits.

[edit] The Horror of categorization

I have deleted the gay writers category from Lawrence as it is misleading. Lawrence may have had bisexual tendencies, but perhaps incestual may be more obvious. Calling Lawrence gay is like callling him Australian as he spent a few months living there, particularly as he was the sort of writer who felt he had to experience the things he wrote about. Also the fact that the article does not back up the categorization makes the category disingenuous. MeltBanana 21:28, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The importance of the categorization is not only whether or not it was significant in the individual's life. It is also useful to people who may be studying a general topic, let's say bisexuality in literature. Why remove facts? There'd be nothing wrong with a category of people who visited Australia if somebody were interested. --Kstern999 20:53, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

In fact, there’s no proof that Lawrence had a sexual affair with William Henry Hocking or with any other man. What's known for certain is that Lawrence, based on his comments, was what might called in contemporary parlance "bi-curious,” but he never made any comments suggesting that he'd physically acted on his impulses, if that’s what they truly were. His statement about coming closest to perfect love with a young coal miner at sixteen can be interpreted many ways; indeed, part of why he may have considered it so is that it lacked the petty jealousies, desire to control, and bruised feelings that, alas, so often afflict relationships when sex is introduced. Obviously, that’s conjecture, but so is baldly asserting that Lawrence was sexually active with Hocking when, to my knowledge, no biographer so far has been able to definitely place them in the sack together -- and not for trying. It would appear there’s an agenda at work here, just as a similar agenda constantly creeps into Wikipedia articles where the romantic lives of artists and writers are concerned. It really is tiring, and bad history to boot. But I suppose that doesn’t matter much when you’re motivated less by a regard for truth and more by the need to generate propaganda, as would seem to be the case.

SOMEONE PLEASE HELP! Does anyone have any insight as to an interpretation of the meaning of the essay "Why the Novel Matters," by DH Lawrence? Or how this writing relates to modernism or his life? In dire need. Thanks, Ltmk90 02:59, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editorial work on the Life and Works sections of this article.

Hi I'm gradually revising and wikifying the different elements of the D H Lawrence article. The largest single task will be the main biography section('Life') that I've left until last and will work on over the next few weeks. Essentially I'd like to employ the chronology produced by Professor John Worthen and others, found within the Cambridge and Penguin editions of Lawrence's works, as a reliable base text. Reliable detailed references include the 3 volume Cambridge biography, the letters, and the recent single volume life by Worthen (2005)

My feeling is that this could then be grouped into subsections within the article. The most appropriate working titles or draft subheadings would seem to be something like this:

  • The early years (England, 1885-1912)
  • Blithe spirit (Germany and Italy, 1912-1914)
  • The nightmare years (England, 1914-1919)
  • The savage pilgrimage begins(Italy, 1919-1922)
  • New worlds (Ceylon, Australia, New Mexico and Old, 1922-1925)
  • Dying game (Return to Europe, 1925-1930)

Writing a revised biography should be fairly straightforward and should involve recycling much of the existing content within the current wikipedia article.

More difficult will be the revision of the current section describing the works. My feeling is that this should continue to be a concise summary, perhaps grouped by genre, with much of the detailed commentary being added to new or improved internally hyperlinked articles on individual books or other texts/genres.

I'd welcome any thoughts on this proposed scheme of work so that DHL gets the online article that he deserves. Obviously Wikipedia is a collaborative venture and I'd be happy to share the burden of creating the boilerplate text etc.

Rmackenzie 22:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

It certainly looks like a good strategy and your additions so far have been all to the good. The only problem that might arise is the 44k article size limit. Few other writer's articles have such an extensive bibliography but if it becomes a problem they can be farmed out in the style of List of books by P. G. Wodehouse. Certainly, the works section is important but very tricky to summarise. I can admit to writing much of that but certain phrases are a bit vague and give me a twinge of idiocy "Hardy, whom Lawrence admired", realism the main, and seemingly only, feature of his work and one sentence on poetry. Oh dear me. As for collaborative, this is not the glowing centre of wikipedia but maybe some more hares will sit up. MeltBanana 22:08, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DH Lawrence and mythology

Lawrence took a great personal interest in mythology and employed this knowledge in his fiction and other writings. For example, his last poems are saturated with references to the Greek underworld. Similarly, the story entitled The Escaped Cock relates to a number of resurrection myths, such as Christianity and Ancient Egyptian beliefs. The academic term 'myth' is descriptive and does not imply that a story is true or false.--Rmackenzie 00:02, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying, but the wording on the article does not make this clear. The wording sounds as if the author of the article feels Christianity is a myth. It could be revised to make the difference clear. Danahuff 00:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

The article does not seek to imply that Christianity is a myth in any derogatory sense, but employs the neutral academic term 'myth' in the specific context of Lawrence's rewriting of the resurrection/rebirth story that is to be found throughout his later poetry and prose. Lawrence himself was a self confessed religious man whose work displays a complex relationship to traditional Christianity and other systems of belief. He was certainly not an orthodox believer in any sense, and The Escaped Cock was written by Lawrence in the light of his understanding of (for example) Christianity, ancient Egypt, Greek mythology, Nietzsche's writings, Frazer's anthropology and a study of the burial artefacts to be found within Etruscan tombs. I've amended the wording of the paragraph within the article to clarify this neutral point of view. A useful discussion of this topic can be found in T R Wright (2000) D H Lawrence and the Bible, Cambridge University Press, see especially Chapter 12.--Rmackenzie 01:32, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

In a critical survey of Lawrence's poetry, Sandra Gilbert talks of 'a revisionary synthesis of myths' from the Bible and ancient Greece and goes on to describe a 'sophisticated and subversive engagement with Christian mythology'. Source: Sandra M Gilbert(1990) Acts of Attention: The Poems of D H Lawrence, Second Edition, Ithaca, Cornell University Press, pp329-331. I hope this helps. --Rmackenzie 01:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External link

Hi, I would like to add an external link to the World of Biography entry

  • probably the most famous portal of biography to this article. Does anybody have any objections?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jameswatt (talk • contribs) 14 April 2006 (UTC)


The Lawrence biographical entry on this proposed link to the World of Biography is poorly written. The link that you mention is essentially a commercial site or shop window for promoting various essay bank and study guide type products. As such, an external link from Wikipedia would count as 'spam' and should be regarded as a candidate for deletion. --Rmackenzie 13:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

please do not add this to the article, and please read the incident report before giving the go-ahead. This is spam and not link-worthy under WP:EL; the articles contain many distortions, lack citations, and contain nothing that wouldn't fit directly in the wiki article. a link to worldofbiography has been placed on over 70 talk pages by User:Jameswatt. thanks. --He:ah? 20:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


PLEASE HELP, I am in desperate need of the meaning of the essay, "Why the Novel Matters," by DH Lawrence. How can I explain to classmates (college) what this essay pertains to? Ltmk90 03:04, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GI Jane

His work self pity was mentioned in the movie GI Jane.

[edit] Lawrence & Melville

Just a thought, but perhaps someone could add to the article some information about Lawrence's part in the Melville revival of the 1920s.

Good point. I've now amended the relevant section on "Studies in Classic American Literature". I'll add some linked comments on the page devoted to this volume and onto the Melville page when I can find a few moments.--Rmackenzie 06:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved comment from HelloThere

The biased or hyperbolic language in the article, ex. "brilliant," "radical new work," "great dramatic force," "mean-spirited critics" etc. need to be removed. The Rainbow was a breakthrough for English letters, but "radical" is over-the-top and a more specific, concrete adjective would do justice to describing the work. I sympathize that Lawrence is a hard person to write an article on because he and his work are atypical, but it'd be better if the article was critically matter-of-fact and not impressionistic or subjective in its account of Lawrence's writing. I noticed that "one of the most important and controversial writers" in the Intro section was replaced with "an important and controversial writer." See, that has more verity. Hyperboles betray subjectivity, causing the reader to find the article to be suspect. Just a suggestion. HelloThere 6 Aug 2006

I moved your comment to the bottom as talk pages should grow downwards with time. I'm sure the article could benefit from trimming a little of the gush; certainly brilliant does not seem quite the right word to sum up Lawrence's writing. MeltBanana 00:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lawrence - realism?!

Wasn't Lawrence's genre more that of naturalism?

As far as I know realism blocks out the ugliness and focuses on unspoilt nature etc. while naturalism actually deals with the problems of working class people and the social changes brought about by the industrialization etc. It is also typical for naturalist writers to employ dialect etc. (and Lawrence did that extensively) while in realism these details are ignored or glossed over. L.S. 14:07, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

  • The articles say that realism is "realistic", but naturalism is even more so. Although I don't know what mr Lawrence wrote. {Phoenixdolphin (talk) 12:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)}
  • Note on dialects. In the article, it's mentioned that his writings are "corrupt", i suppose this means that he's written so extensively in dialect, that people who live nowadays would have a real hard time understanding them? It would be interesting to read examples of this, and I suppose people who have studied old languages would like to read his "corrupt" versions. {Phoenixdolphin (talk) 12:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)}

[edit] Lawrence's photograph

I know this is trivial, but... If someone had asked me who was shown in the photo, I never would have guessed Lawrence. Could someone please add a picture of the older, bearded, and rougher-looking Lawrence?

24.22.132.12 (talk) 11:46, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Owls"?

What does this mean?: "He would have laughed lightly and cursed venomously in passing at the solemn owls–each one secretly chained by the leg–who now conduct his inquest.". Is it something like, the overserious inhibited people who research the cause of his death? But it's mentioned later that he had those all of his life? {Phoenixdolphin (talk) 12:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)}