Talk:Czech phonology
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I found this hiding in the article. It looks like it might be useful but it needs translation. I don't even know of the article already covers what this does. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 03:36, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
- I intend to translate this into English, but I haven't had enough time to do it yet.--Pajast 13:55, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Alternace samohláskových fonémů
Délka (kvantita) samohlásek patří k základním distinktivním (rozlišovacím) rysům ve fonologii češtiny. Střídání (alternace) krátkých a dlouhých fonémů jsou v češtině běžné při odvozování slov i při ohýbání. V průběhu vývoje jazyka se však některé fonémy měnily (/oː/ > /uː/, /uː/ > /oʊ̯/), proto při střídání krátkých a dlouhých hlásek nemusí tvořit pár dva kvalitativně stejné/podobné zvuky.
| Krátký foném | Dlouhý foném | Příklad, poznámka |
|---|---|---|
| /a/ | /aː/ | zakladatel – zakládat |
| /ɛ/ | /ɛː/ | letadlo – létat |
| /ɪ/ | /iː/ | litovat – lítost vykonat – výkon |
| /o/ | /uː/ | koně – kůň |
| /ʊ/ | /uː/ | učesat – účes (pouze na začátku slovních základů) |
| /ʊ/ | /oʊ̯/ | kup – koupit (v ostatních pozicích) |
[edit] Pronunciation of ř
The articles Czech phonology and Caron are conflicting in how they explain the pronounciation of the ř letter.
- From Caron: Ř/ř (only in Czech: special fricative trill /r̝/, transcribed as /ɼ/ in pre-1989 IPA, pronounced roughly as a compound of trilled /r/ and /ʒ/, e.g. Antonín Dvořák listen )
- This explanation explains the fricativeness very carefully. Nothing of that kind was in the Czech phonology article.
- From Czech phonology: The phoneme /r̝/ (written as <ř>) is an alveolar fricative trill (see alveolar trill) its rarity makes it difficult to produce for foreign learners of Czech. The basic realization of this phoneme is voiced, but it is voiceless [r̝̊] when surrounded by voiceless consonants.
- Except for the voiceless/voiced thing, this makes the reader think that ř is the same as r in Finnish. Or at least, it does not explain the difference.
I would like to have some clarification to this issue. Either one of the articles should be fixed. Probably the Czech phonology one. --Bisqwit 02:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
- It is difficult to describe Czech /ř/. It is neither trilled [r] nor fricative [ʒ] (or [ʃ]), it is something in between. Primarily it is a trill as [r], but the tongue is closer to the hard palate, which gives it a fricative character (partially). The vibrations of the tongue are softer and more frequent than in [r]. In the contemporary IPA version, it is recorded as raised alveolar trill, i.e. r with a special diacritic mark ("up-tack").
- I do not know what is the realization of /r/ in Finnish. I cannot explain the difference. The voiceless /ř/ is similar to the retrofex /rs/ [ʂ] in Swedish but it is not the same. If you had some better formulation, feel free to improve this article. --Pajast 16:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
The article says that /ř/ is pronounced as voiceless when it is surrounded with voiceless consonants. I think that it is enough, if it is preceded with a voiceless consonant. For example in the name Třinec . However, I have no literature to support or disconfirm it. Jan.Kamenicek 15:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, no. The assimilation of /ř/ is both progressive and regressive. Therefore, "preceded" is not enough. If it followed by a voiceless consonant, it is voiceless too. What about words like "buřt, stopařka, mateřství" etc.? --Pajast 16:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
-
- Yes, you are definitely right. But it is another argument that the word "surrounded" should be replaced, otherwise it seems that the consonant /ř/ has to be both preceded and followed by voiceless consonants at the same time to be voiceless too. And there is even one more possibility, when it is at the very end of a word, for example "Jaroměř". Therefore I suggest to rewrite the sentence as follows:
- "The basic realization of this phoneme is voiced, but it is voiceless [r̝̊] when preceded or followed by a voiceless consonant or at the end of a word." Jan.Kamenicek 18:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
OK, no problem. --Pajast 15:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] consonant assimilation
Could someone please explain this in more detail? For example, are the z and h in nezhasni voiced or voiceless and is this so according to some "rule"? --Espoo (talk) 18:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- According to this rule (reggressive assimilation), this group is voiced, because h is voiced, so the whole group (zh) is voiced. --Pajast (talk) 13:51, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] affricates
The phonemes /f/ , /g/, and the affricates /d͡z/ and /d͡ʒ/ occur in words of foreign origin only. Phonetically, the affricates can occur at morpheme boundaries (see consonant merging below)
Please compare to [1]: V domácích slovech se znělé afrikáty vyskytují pouze v trsech před znělým konsonantem – potom ovšem můžeme v tomto případě znělé afrikáty chápat jako pouhé znělostní varianty neznělých afrikát (džbán). Translation: Voiced affricates of home origin appear in groups in front of voiced consonant - then one can of course understand these voiced affricates as mere voiced variants of unvoiced affricates (example "džbán").
It looks pretty similar but there is a significant difference: At least /d͡ʒ/ appears also in words of the Czech origin. Rarely but it does. The affricates just do not appear in front of vowels. The word džbán is not a product of consonant mergning, is it? Miraceti (talk) 10:48, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Velarized lateral in Czech
What is the exact IPA value of Czech <l>. It clearly sounds different than Polish or French <l>. May it be velarized? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.21.38.149 (talk) 20:00, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
