Talk:Cylon (reimagining)

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[edit] Spoilers

Can someone who has seen all current episodes put {{Spoiler}} warnings in - I don't want to do it as I'll find stuff out I don't want to know!Tompagenet 21:43, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cylon numbering

What is this about Brother Cavil being Number Two and Leoben being Number Eleven? -- Noneofyourbusiness 01:04, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Apparently, Cavil is shown to be #2 in the closed captions. It gets changed back and forth every week or so. As for Leoben being #11 I have no idea... -- Fru1tbat 02:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

CC is rarely a good source for information. If that is all we have to go on, then they should both be relisted as "(Cylon Model Number Unknown)". Koweja 02:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it more likely that the closed captions were referring to Cavil #2, meaning the second Brother Cavil to speak in the scene in question? -- Noneofyourbusiness 02:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

That's a very good point. For that reason, until more is known, he should be left as "unknown", I think. -- Fru1tbat 03:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

So the Centurions, Raiders, and Hybrids (Basestars) don't count towards the "12 models"? 139.84.112.160 23:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

There are 12 human models of Cylon, not 12 models in general. If that's not understood explicitly with Adama's note, The behaviour of the human models to the basestars/raiders/centurions should prove that. If nothing else, Six's line in "Torn" that "We don't discuss them", is more then enough explanation to say tha the Final Five haven't been shown yet at all. - 59.167.14.91 01:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Is there a reason Cavil keeps getting moved to the top of the list instead of with the other unknown model numbers? Koweja 00:38, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Do we really know that the numbers have any significance to when skin jobs were first produced or when design was completed? Couldn't there have been 12 models planned in parallel and more or less completed simultaneously? Otherwise there would be some implication that model 12 was more advanced in design that model 1 due to more design, manufacturing and operational experience.

I guess numbering is still interesting if we are speculating on the writers master timeline of events. One would assume that the writers numbered models as the plot timeline first put them in action against the Colonials. Nevertheless I think a model might exist long before being used. 69.23.120.164 17:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

According to this blog entry Number Six was named after Number Six of The Prisoner, and the rest of the numbers were assigned randomly. Of course this doesn't rule out the possibility of the numbers being assigned some kind of significance for some future plotline. -- Gordon Ecker 06:10, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Final Five

Speculation converges based on D'anna Biers apology and the unstated rule that Cylons skin jobs are not really attracted to other Cylons but only to humans.

Colonel Tighe -- maximum irony, D'anna had some interaction in his torture on New Caprica

Cassie -- irony and Tyrol batting 1.000, plus D'anna had some involvement with arrest

Sam -- Cylon-human pairing Starbuck; Caprica rebel insider; clean way for Starbuck-Apollo future

"Dee" Dualla -- works as Cylon-human pairing; cleanup for Starbuck-Apollo; suspicious Cylon tracking of fleet (one "accident" in open)

Tom Zarek -- Actor baggage from originals series; Cylon influence on Colonial masses; documented reasons for missing time in personal history; Cylon access to blackmarket routes especially how nuke moved from Baltur to the tortured #6

Cally - Killed off by Tori (One of the Final Five) Irony that would make Nicholas the 1st Cylon-Cylon Child and SciFi.com Has not updated her on cast. Shorter Person in the Surreal image Made by D'Anna. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.248.180 (talk) 12:27, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Protected by plot events

Laura Roslin -- cancer and prophecy involvement

Helo -- fertile pairing with Cylon

~~Tyrol -- pairing with known Cylon; fertile with likely Cylon; prophecy interpreter, etc~~ Revelad as one of the final five

Starbuck -- has Cylon stalker; multiple prophecy involvements (navigator as in Odessy), etc

Tighe's wife -- other Cylons should know if she resurrected

Just too weird

Adama -- if Cylon what the hell are they thinking

Apollo -- similar questions when he was long in command of battlestars etc

Possible

Gaeta -- could swap with Dualla as Cylon especially as there was an early interest in Dualla, but doesn't seem to be strong interacting character

69.23.120.164 17:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC) 69.23.120.164 17:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Note that the rule you're basing this on (humanoid Cylons are "not really" attracted to other Cylons) is something the writers can change whenever they want, and has been semi-violated by the Baltar-Six-D'Anna threesome. It's not strong or well-founded enough to base any solid theories on. Also, involvement in prophecies absolutely does not preclude a character from being a Cylon. Who says figures spoken of in human prophecies must be humans, and figures spoken of in Cylon prophecies (or whatever) must be Cylons?

Anyway, this is all pure speculation right now, and while I find it an interesting subject, this talk page is really about the content of article, not predictions about the show.

--Fru1tbat 17:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I figured the identity of the remaining Cylon skin jobs, rules of operations and what clues have been dropped was fair game.

The rule about Cylon skin jobs only being fertile with humans is an important fact though and it has been explicitly stated. Helo can't be a Cylon. Though the writers can change anything in the story if they want (heck the Galactica could turn out to be Cylon built though it would be a hard sell).

You are right on whether the actual attractions of Cylon to humans is a firm rule. Though #6 once mentioned something along that line to Baltur (curiosity and reproduction), that may be only Caprica 6's opinion. Such an operational rule has not been stated by the writers in interviews. But so far...

The threesome doesn't really say that there is a Cylon-Cylon attraction only a willingness to attempt sharing. If there was an lesbian Cylon-Cylon attraction, #6 sure didn't show that protectiveness at the vote to shut D'anna model down. In fact I thought the relationship Cylon-to-Cylon was more and more jealousy. Another words the more typical basis and progression of threesomes.

Also I have considered the idea that the Cylons are in fact the vehicle of prophecy or at least forcing prophecy to come true and Cylon-human attraction being specious. But that would then tend to say Starbuck, Laura, Tyrol and likely Adama and Apollo are merely herdmasters for the Colonial rabble. Why? Altrusim to creators/God to save some Colonials from a nearby supernova? Hard to figure out if the show says anything about Cylon motivates yet in that case. In fact that route would tend to say many things on the main Cylon page are misperceptions and that Cylons are even bigger method actors than we thought. 69.23.120.164 17:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Projection

Shouldn't the article describe the concept of Projection that was talked about in last weeks episode (Torn)? It seems to be an importiant aspect of the Cylon culture and sense of reality. 70.109.228.66 00:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hybrids

Considering the Judeo-Roman influences of the series, it's safe to consider the possibility that hybrids are the show's version of the oracle. What do you think?

Well, if that is the case, then there should be a mention of what the hybrid shown was actually saying. I'm positive it spoke some lines from Shakespeare (specifically, Hamlet's soliliquoy on suicide), but I couldn't make out where the rest was from. Anyone know? - Lauren H.

I thought it was just saying technical babble, reporting on the status of things, but not sure. I don't remember any quoting of literature. Cyberia23 06:25, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

She said: "Two protons expelled at each coupling site creates the mode of force, the embryo becomes a fish though we don't enter until A plate, we're here to experience, evolve the little toe, atrophy, don't ask me how, I'll be dead in a thousand light years, thank you, thank you, genesis turns to its source, reduction occurs step wise though the essence is all one, end of line. FTL system check. Diagnostic functions within parameters repeats the harlequin, the agony exquisite, the colors run the path of ashes..." Noneofyourbusiness 00:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

On the article about the Cylon basestar it says the Hybrid has a "reaction similar to an orgasm"? Huh? It looks like it's more in pain, not pleasure...If we are to see that this organism is in fact a pseudo-human CPU for the Cylon Basestar, then something like moving a massive star vessel from a stationary, or sub-light movement speed, to faster than light...sounds rather painful, or strenuous to me. If we are to assume that the Cylon Basestar uses a similar FTL system to the Colonial fleet, than she'd have to "spin up" the drives...but either way this seems more like work than pleasure, but considering the vague introduction we had to her, we simply relate her to typical human emotions and states of being when she could, in fact, be devoid of all that, to make room for operational software and such. I wonder, if we look at her like an oracle, instead of a tool, (which considering a few of the things she says make sense, such as atrophy from lack of use seems to be the only way to relieve oneself of the useless appendage of the "little toe". She also seems to have a mileage, like a car engine, which I found humourous.) then I pose questions "Do the humans know about the hybrids? If so, how would they react? Kill her? Can she die in the traditional sense?" It's interesting, and I do hope we see more of her, she's a puzzle, and a very intriguing one at that. CylonSix 4:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

The Colonials know something about the hybrids because Sharon told them and they found the dead one on the virus attacked basestar. I think the "orgasm" comment referred to the general idea of sensory overload and massive firing of neurons (or their Hybrid equivalent) -- without worrying about the B&D or S&M implications of seeking it out. The whole idea of the hybrids is a central coordinating system running at the edge of capacity (probably using a lot approximations to shortcut decision making). So an actual jump probably causes a momentary overload as all the old space data goes invalid, you get a moment of "in jump" nonsense, then a totally new set of space data for the new location. Massive system reset at the higher levels as everything needs to be recalculated and new decision database built.

So do raiders experience anything similar? They aren't carrying the massive overhead of basestar internal systems but do carry some navigation/combat/exterior environment systems. Raiders aren't of course called upon to evaluation millions of implications from Cylon plans, but only a few immediate self survival issues.69.23.120.164 18:16, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Dead and resurrection don't apply to hybrids. They are apparently cloned from a common design. But after installation there doesn't seem to be an occasion where replacement makes sense (ship destroyed). On the other hand, except in an event like the virus fear, basestars apparently replicate all their data to each other when they are in range. What one knows, the others soon know. A new Hybrid gets a full upload. So I would think the Hybrids are a bit more like a single hive mind to the extent they have personality. Due to info overload there is likely barely enough time to develop a rudementary personality among all Hybrids and no time for great distinction among them.

Wasn't it stated by #6, when resurrection first came up in the series, that there was only one place memory data from individual skin jobs got merged to the Cylons? I assume that means the Resurrection ship Hybrid. Certainly individual skin jobs keep secrets even from same models. Another reason Hybrid might seem like an Oracle. 69.23.120.164 19:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

And here I had assumed that Hybrids were partially stealling the ideal of the Navigators from Dune. That is Hybrids do have a small degree of precognitive ability primarily for navigation. But also Hybrids coordinate all basestar information systems allowing them to deduce, induce, and extrapolate conclusions. Thus Hybrids aren't really babbling so much as presenting samples of information stored or being processed in basestar systems. Basically too much information for the human interface portion of a Hybrid to verbalize. Also the comments about crazy are probably a reference to the fact that the human conscious portion of the Hybrid can't quite keep up itself without extreme stress. there is no excess capacity for the Hybrid to formulate a normal conversation while data zips by in their minds 1000s of times faster than even skin jobs can handle.69.23.120.164 16:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore I supect Baltur will turn out to be some sort half-brother to the hybrids on basestars. Remember how the Hybrid seemed to have a unique response to Baltur and make bigger efforts to communicate to "slow time" humaniods? I doubt Baltur is a true Cylon because that would violate the unstated rule that Cylons skin jobs are not really attracted to other Cylons but only to humans. Yet it is also obvious that Baltur is more than just crazy. It would make more sense if Baltur was a little of both. Maybe he was a human modified at birth or the real first case of Cylon-human reproduction. His succcessful modification could also the source of Cylon speculation on reproduction with humans. Wasn't there also a comment about the Hybrids being crazy because they were in someway too close to human?69.23.120.164 16:33, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

As far as the working relationship between skin jobs and the basestar Hybrids go, isn't it really a Board of Trustees (stockholders) to CEO relationship? I mean normally the Hybrid does what they ask her to do and manages implementation of orders down to Cylon raiders and troops. Skin jobs can only override orders face to face from what I understand. But I seem to remember that the Hybrids can also take emergency actions on their own like jumping out of lethal area (nova, etc) assuming they recognize the danger and the time is too short. Plus I also seem to remember that following Baltur's exploration of the virus infected basestar, some Hybrids switched from objecting to leaving the basestar in trouble to actually refusing some orders to jump (due to fear) to where the Hybrids thought the virus might be caught or spread through the Cylon fleet. Wasn't it not wanting to go near the Resurrection ship or communciate with other basestars? 69.23.120.164 19:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Centurions not purely mechinical?

If the Centurions lack any biological components how were they infected by the virus? The show seems to be implying that they, like the Cylon fighters, have organic guts inside their metal frames. 208.101.91.76 00:02, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Or at least Organic Brains, Encephalitis is a viral infection of the brain and the Lymph nodes are used to regulate body fluids, specifically white blood cells. Lymphocytic Encephalitis is essentially, a disease that distrupts the ability to maintain and manipulate an immune response. - 121.44.249.64 08:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Boomer said that the Centurions started shutting down as soon as the Hybrid was infected, so the virus is actually having an indirect effect on them. -- Noneofyourbusiness 20:11, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

The Centurions seem to be networked (perhaps with the hybrid), because during the very beginning of the re-imaged series Helo ends up blowing one in half with a claymore, and there are no biological components inside, it appears to be purely mechanical. There is also the possibility that only the CPU for the Centurion's brain is biological, but that's purely speculation...I would hold to say that the Centurions are purely mechanical in nature, and are controlled by the Hybrid. CylonSix 4:26 30, November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] classification

How do we classify the humanoid model cylons, as robots or cyborgs? I think cyborgs for the humanoid models as they are a mixture of living tissue and mechanical components. The Centurions are definitely robots. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 01:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The humanoid Cylons are bio androids, I'd say. "Cyborg" usually refers to a regular lifeform which has been modified. -- Noneofyourbusiness 05:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revelations in Crossroads, Part Two

A number of Wikipedia articles for those affected by the events of Crossroads, Part Two are assuming that Tyrol, Tigh, Tory and Anders are Cylons. All we know at this point is that they think they are are Cylons, and Tigh does not even seem convinced of that. Given the nature of the song they heard, I think it is premature to assume that this is the case and that the articles should reflect only the possibility that they are Cylons and not state it as a confirmed fact. Hermiod 12:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

It was confirmed that all four are Cylons in this interview with BSG executive producer Ron Moore ("RM" below):

R: When did you decide to make these four characters Cylons and how much did you have to go back and check to make sure that fit with things we already knew about these four characters?

RM: It was something I came up with this season as I worked toward the finale. The conceptual framework in which these guys are Cylons, it all sort of works once we laid down their individual back stories.

R: Are these four all full Cylons?

RM: Yes, but they are different fundamentally.

ChazBeckett 12:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Or this could be a mind-frack on the part of the series producers. It wouldn't be the first time that the creator of a Sci-Fi shows has told outright lies in order to keep a story suspenseful. I think we need to make sure that until we see more of the show in Season 4, that there are suitable weasel-words built in to the WP articles. -- Alucard (Dr.) | Talk 15:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Its so obvious that they are. 210.55.84.236 01:43, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Not obvious enough that I would want it written as fact in the WP page just yet. I want to see how it goes on. -- Alucard (Dr.) | Talk 15:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Total number of models

Sorry to interrupt here, when Six said to Baltar that there was only 12 models of cylons, she did not say "humanoid" cylons. But in the 3rd season there is a reference to the "final five" I wonder if it's a minor inconsistency or what.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Freeflyer (talk • contribs) 12:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC).

I don't think an unspoken assumption should count as an inconsistancy. It was officially stated fairly early on that the count only includes the numbered humanoid models, not raiders or centurions, and soon after the Hybrids were introduced, it was confirmed that they aren't in the count either. -- Gordon Ecker 05:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cylon final five names

Is it significant that each of the four humanoid Cylons revealed thus far has a name beginning with 'T'? (I observe that there is yet a remaining Cylon to be revealed, but at least two characters who have a name which begins with 'T': Zarek and Starbuck.) Or is this just a writer's nod towards their Toaster heritage? Wooster (talk) 16:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "...have not been shown using speech"

Regarding the sentence about speech in the Centurions section, didn't one of them speak in the pilot miniseries? I could've sworn one of them did the classic "by your command" line on the Armistice Station. Tarc 18:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

"despite their origins, the Cylons believe themselves to be spiritual beings"

Can someone explain what this is supposed to mean? I think the statement is implying a contradiction between the Cylons' artificiality and their spirituality, but there's nothing inherently contradictory about this, so it seems somewhat original and opinionated. I'd suggest that a more appropriate statement would be "in contrast to the view of them held by most humans ("toasters"), the Cylons believe themselves to be spiritual beings." Steve 12:51, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah, very nice wording.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 04:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "The Hybrids are played by Tiffany Lyndall-Knight"

This should be changed, as the Hybrid in Razor is played by an elderly male. KyuzoGator 01:12, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

The standard hybrids are played by Tiffany. The first prototype hybrid was played by ... ? 70.55.85.95 (talk) 04:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

...Campbell Lane. Added brief info about that into the article. Canez (talk) 17:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Razor

There should be additional info added to the Centurions about the one encountered in the First Cylon War, and the ones on the old Basestar. 70.55.85.95 (talk) 04:47, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vulnerabilities

From the article: "It seems that members of the 'Final Five' do not share these vulnerabilities - Anders does not contract the virus when aboard the diseased basestar, and neither Tyrol nor Tigh suffer any ill effects when aboard Ragnar Anchorage (although their exposure was far less than Leoben's)."

Anders was never on the diseased basestar. Doral arrived at Ragnar shortly after Tyrol and Tigh did, and he didn't show any effects until long after they left. 98.164.64.171 (talk) 21:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 12

I was wondering if there should be inclusion of the link between 12 Cylon models, 12 apostles, and 12 Greek gods (tribes of Kobol)? This was utilized in the least for a promotional image of the Last Supper featuring the cast for Season 4. -66.109.248.114 (talk) 23:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC).

[edit] notable 8s

There seem to be three notable 8's now... Boomer, Athena, and the leadership rep (whom we saw on Caprica as well...) 70.55.85.225 (talk) 06:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] numbering

1-6+8 .... seems to lead to #7 being somehow important, and probably the missing Final Five. Especially if you consider 8 did not know she was a deep agent in the fleet... like the Final Four. 70.55.85.225 (talk) 06:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm leaning more toward TPTB not doing their math right and for the sake of the article I doubt there's any reason to mention it until and if it's addressed in the show. Canez (talk) 07:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History

I completely rewrote the section on their history as I thought it didn't really read that well. But I may have included too much information so it might need to be shortened. Canez (talk) 05:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Cylons' ability to recognise each other

Hi, sorry for my poor english. I was just thinking : shouldn't be this article also mentioning the ability that cylons have to distinguish a particular individual among a model, just by looking at him or her, although this individual is just a clone ?

As we've already seen in the show, humans seem to be unable to recognize a particular cylon individual, and can only recognise this individual as a member of a "model". This is also the case for centurions : when the number 8 "Athena" goes back on New Capprica during the human rescue mission (at the beginning of season 3), she's not recognized by centurions, and therefor not shot or arrested by them, although she's a known traitor to her own kind.

However, during her mission she meets a number 3 who recognizes her almost immediately.

The same phenomenon has been observed many times : - when both humans and cylons converge near the planet on which they discover the eye of Jupiter, a group composed of a 1, a 3 and an 8 comes aboard Galactica to negociate the right to retrieve the artefact. Athena is guarding the room in which the negociations are about to take place, and then instantaneously recognizes the 8 of the coming cylon group as the ressurected "Boomer", just by looking at her. Other humans, however, hadn't recognized her (even Saul Tigh, who is also a Cylon, but who wasn't aware of it at this time). - during the episode "downloaded", many other cylons pay their respect to the number 6 who has helped the cylons hacking the colonial defense main fraim before the attack (the six nicknamed as "Capprica"). They distinguish her without effort from the other 6s - at the beginning of season 4, when cylons are debating about the raiders' general lobotomy, an 8 comes to explain that she disagrees with the global opinion of her model. The 6 Nathalie (who is representing the 6s for this decision) identifies her immediately as "boomer", just at a glance.

How they do that is never explained in the show. But I think this would be interesting to mention it in the article, as an other "superhuman ability" of the cylons. I just can't add it myself in the article, since my english is not good enough.

I also had a question which has nothing to do with it : it's about the timing of resurrection of number 6 "Capprica-6". As we've seen in the serie, the ressurection of a cylon happens almost immediately after his death. Future 8 "Athena" mentions it when Kara Thrace comes on Capprica to retrieve the arrow of Appolo, and kills a 6 who attacked her : when seeing the dead body of the 6, Sharon says "Her consciousness is being downloaded to an other body right now" (or something like that), implying that the resurrection process of this 6 is just taking place at the moment. Other exemple : when 8 Athena asks Helo to kill her in order to be downloaded on the cylon ressurection ship to take her baby back, her ressurection happens very quickly after she's killed

But for Capprica-6, it's odd : she' killed just after the attack on the colonies (by protecting Baltar with her body when his house explodes), but the episode "downloaded" in which she comes back to life seems to happen long after those events (since Boomer informs her that now Baltar is the vice president of the survivors). If "downloaded" was taking place in fact long after the ressurection of Capprica-6, it means she would be having troubles with her feelings for Baltar and her second life for 10 months ! quite long, for a sort of nervous breakdown. And why the hell would then the other cylons be congratulating her for her actions just then, 10 months after her mission's success ?

I just don't get it. Do you ?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.195.131.17 (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2008 (UTC)