Talk:Crower six stroke

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can the stem produce the required amount of power such that it can push down the piston

This article was nominated for deletion on April 7, 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep.

Doesn't this violate thermodynamics? Four-step cycles are the most efficient heat engines. Isopropyl 21:23, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Sort of but not really. I think you are referring to a Carnot cycle type diagram, where 4 distinct processes give the optimum efficiency. However, real engines often include extra subsystems to improve their efficency, such as turbo diesels, or even water injection in other IC engines. In the case of this particular engine the jury is out as to whether he's getting good efficiency. Greglocock 01:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

If the jury is still out, is it important enough to have an encyclopedia article then? --Interiot 11:47, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

His thermal efficiency's going to be lousy, and I always thought that retained heat in the engine was a Good Thing from an efficiency perspective. Just how hot does this engine run on the power stroke to be able to generate any meaningful head of steam? And not be returned to the start of it's 'warm up' cycle on every fifth stroke? Something is very much amiss here. 203.129.60.136 08:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC) (forgot not only to log in, but my log in!)

Added a few 'cites needed'. Don't cite Cower -- of course he'll say nice things. No matter how you do the math, this can't work. How on earth has this article survived this long?

OK lets go through this one thing at a time here. Does it violate the laws of thermodynamics: NO. That is because the internal combustion engines of today are highly ineficient. In general the energy that is produced when the fuel is burned is converted to heat and expanding gases that move the piston. This is good to a point but the slight problem is that the gases also transfer a lot of heat to the engine itself. Mainly the head, cylinder walls and piston are heated by this and eventualy that is disipated either through radiators and coolant or with some small engines(go vw), cooling fins. This wastes the energy in the heat and the energy used to cool: fans and water pumps. All this heat and energy go to make a very nice system to heat air but make IC engines very ineficient. Now all this system does is take all(ok most) of that heat and use it to boil water and power an aditional stroke. As this article says its not perfect and has many practicle problems(think rust) but it is a significant invention that could become even more important as it is developed. No a standard IC engine is not the most eficient but it is the most practical for automotive aplications for its power band and price. It can work it just might not, math isn't the problem engineering is. And cite Cower all you want just don't cite hime for how good it is cite him for what it is. All of that said in his defense I think that the fact that I am reading this isn't a good sign for the technology's future. If everything was going well he would be selling/producing it instead of trying to get media atention. Personaly I think that the technology will hit a brick wall long before it gets to consumers for practicality reasons, and as they say the devils in the details. Effilcdar 02:11, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This fellow has very solid credentials.

He's been building breakthrough items for automotive use since 1955 or so. He is a major contributor on the way to two wheel driven V-8 "automobiles" that reach 320 mph in 4.5 seconds from a standing start.

Check my additions.

I am happy that Wiki can take on new items quickly.

I am certain that some aspect of this idea will find widespread use.

Please see my current edit. --Homebuilding 04:52, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Not trying to be nasty, but I've heard of his name once: This article. Which 'breakthrough' devices has he created? Remember that a patent only shows you were first, not that you're right! 203.129.60.136 08:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC) (Forgot not only to log in, but my log in!)

Look up "Crower Cams" on Google. He's been a leading inventor in high-performance racing engine design for several decades. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.157.14 (talk) 01:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

If you tried to search for him on Google, I am sure you might well find him. You can't simply assume that anyone you haven't heard of isn't reputable. You can see homebuilding's evidence above. Why not check out some of the links? Theoreticly possible, practicly complete crap. If the engine turns for example 30 times a second, (1800 a minute) it means that water has only 1/60 of the second to take the heat from the wals of cilinder and transform itself in the high presure steam. The only practical solution for hibrid steam and internal combustion otto engine has been already tried: injenction of water during expansion cycle and after (et least most of it) fuel was burned. Used in aircraft (fighter) engines giving about 10% extra power without increase of fuel consumption and working temperature (it actualy lovered it). but probably used 16 times much water then fuel. I do not know what is the reason why system never has been used to reduce the fuel consumption (most probably because oxides can turn to accids in the presence of water: co2 + h20 = h2co3 (carbolic acid) and obvious need for condesator in the case of nonmilitary use). bumbar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.109.1 (talk) 18:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Saab used water injection on a few of their early turbos, caused pitting in parts, they decided that this (minimal) use of water injection was a bad idea, stopped it. Some companies that make performance parts produce water injection systems nowadays- which is all very well if your engine mileage between services is measured in feet rather than miles. It'd take some serious convincing to make me believe you could create an efficient condenser that wouldn't seriously impact on performance. John Nevard (talk) 03:38, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Consider a search of "NHRA" or "Crower Camshafts" Crower has been an inventor and refiner of a host of "go fast parts" for automotive engines used most often in drag racing since the 1950s--legal off street racing while the NASCAR boys were illegally racing away from the revenuers in North Carolina----yea,yea,yea...citation needed! hahahaha homebuilding207.178.98.43 (talk) 02:31, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New (contrasted with old) developments in the internal combustion engine

Honda has a new diesel..selling in Europe and coming soon to the U.S. It generates 250 ft/lbs of torque at 2,500 rpm out of a turbocharged 2.2 L--the breakthrough is a massive increase in the fuel injector pressure--up to 30,000 psi! Fuel dispersal is dramatically greater than previous diesel designs. This is relevant in that innovation continues to drive for greater efficiency in the IC engine. Should Crower NOT be successful with the 6 stroke in an automotive engine--the 6 stroke arrangement has great potential for large stationary industrial engines, such as peaking plants used for electrical generation. Also, please note that earlier examples of "water injection" are NOT a fundamental modification of the Otto four cycle. They involve the use of water injected into the intake stream to cool it for the purposes of avoiding detonation---even old John Deere tractors built from the 1930s to the 1950s dripped water (by manual faucet operation by the driver) into the intake allowing engines of >400 cubic inches to burn very low octane gasoline AND other, more oily distillates, without detonation under full throttle loading. Homebuilding207.178.98.50 05:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank for letting us know. What the hell does it have to do with anything that should be in this article, again? 209.2.100.242 06:06, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The over-riding theme is: somehow using water in a somewhat conventional internal combustion engine, using liquid or gaseous carbon-based fuels (simply because that is what has been done and there is a 100 year infrastructure and knowledge of how to do this...) The idea is to have the use of water somehow help to reduce pollution, reduce fuel consumption, without dramatic increases in complexity (or the creation of other significant difficulities)----such as all of the nasty stuff that's needed to create, use, and dispose of dramatically larger capacity electrical storage batteries. Homebuilding207.178.98.43 (talk) 02:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)