Talk:Croix de guerre

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Husnock -- You incorrectly reverted the page on the basis that there are no modern day units that are currently authorized to wear the French Fourragere won for three Croix de guerre. The 5th and 6th Marine Regiments, one currently part of the 1st Marine Division at Camp Pendleton, the other the 2d at Camp Lejeune, were part of the 4th Marine Brigade during WWII. The award authorization continues to today. Reference: http://www.i-mef.usmc.mil/msc/1mardiv/2BN5MAR/FOURRAGERE.htm -- Uhlek

You have in the article that present day people can wear it for World War II actions, but the reference you have states World War I actions. Also, in my 10 years in the Navy I have never heard of this nor I have ever seen a service record, in my work through the National Personnel Records Center, authorize a World War I decoration for wear on present day active military uniforms. The FRGE of the CDG is also not listed in any uniform regulations manual as an authorized decoration except for retired or discharged World War II personnel. Im not saying that you're not being truthful, but I think this is something unoffical that some USMC units might do.

Sorry for the typo. One too many Is. It's not awarded to an individual, it's a unit award that is only worn by active members of that unit, so it's not referenced in an individual's SRB. Pulled up the MCO, it's MCP P1020.34G, section 5302:

5302. FOURRAGERE. (See fig. 5-6.) Figure Hyperlink: Fig 5-7 Wearing of Fourragere. 1. The Fourragere was awarded by the French Ministry of War to those units which were cited two or more times in the French Orders of the Army, and when awarded became part of the cited unit's uniform. 2. The 5th and 6th Marine Regiments were so cited during World War I, and therefore, all Marines serving in these units are authorized to wear the Fourragere. 3. Marines entitled to wear the Fourragere will wear it on all uniform service and dress coats/jackets when medals or ribbons are prescribed. The Fourragere will not be worn on the tanker jacket or the AWC. 4. The Fourragere will have a pencil attachment with a polished brass or black tip, will be of the same shades as the ribbon of the Croix de Guerre Medal, and will conform to applicable military specifications per direction from CMC (MMAA). 5. The Fourragere will be worn over the left shoulder with the left arm passing through the large loop of the cord; the small loop will engage the button under the shoulder strap, except on the enlisted men's blue dress coat when it will engage the button above the strap, and the metal pencil attachment will hang naturally to the front.

Hyperlink: http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/PAGES/Uniform%20Regs%20Chapters/Chapter%205_files%5CChapter%205.htm

I'm a former Marine, used to be assigned to 2/10, the fire support battalion for 6th Marines at Lejeune. Still work with the Corps at Quantico on a project that shall remain unnamed, for it often incurs the wrath of sailors and Marines who hear about it. ;) It's still actively worn. --Uhlek

1 Modern Day United States Issuance
2 Notable recipients
3 with Palme?
4 Upcased Guerre
5 WikiProject class rating

[edit] Modern Day United States Issuance

I did some further checking on this from a variety of sources at the National Personnel Records Center. I can say for certian that there are absoluetly no records of modern day presentations of the Croix de guerre to U.S. service members that I know about. People who are assigned to units which earned the award in WWI and WWII are probably permitted to wear it ceremonially, that is not in question. However, in over 3 - 5 hundred records reviewed from 1948 to the present, not one, especially on a DD Form 214, listed the Croix de guerre as an authorized award.

So, to clear up the point I completely believe that it is an award worn by modern day units. But, as an official award entered into service records the evidence is against this. -Husnock 26Feb05

[edit] Notable recipients

Should Audie Murphy be mentioned as a recipient? Not sure.

But I am seeking an answer to this question:

Has a Croix de Guerre ever giving to a "Hmong" (soldier) in Laos by the French Government (Legionaire) in any time during the history of the indochina history and its many conflicts?

thank you.

A Hmong-American kid

Well, the croix de guerre is a french military award : as you wrote it, this one is given by the french government ; but only if one person (soldier, non commissioned officers, officer or a civilian) contributed to defend the french army line on the combat area. So your ancestor may have recieved this medal if his allegiance went to the french army during one concerned conflict : WW I ou WW II for example... The english wikipedia may need some clean up about the "croix de guerre" indeed we make easily the difference between the croix de guerre 1914-1918 or 1939-1945 or TOE... For the Indochinia conflict, the only croix de guerre he may have been granted is the "Croix de guerre des TOE"... the two one else concerns former conflicts. Moreover, the military award was created to commemore heroic acts with star (bronze, silver,... ) or palm according to the heroic degree... In this way, the croix de guerre is normally always given with an acknowlegment... That's all I can say about this subject. I hope I gave you the answer you were looking for.

Sincerily user:Paris75000 11:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] with Palme?

Various officers of the Royal Air Force (and I imagine other British officers) were awarded this award "with Palme" - does anyone know what that signified? Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 10:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, a palm degree concerns an acknowledgement for people who has been cited at the army level, and is in fact the french higher acknowledgement level for a croix de guerre... the other degrees are much more lower :

a bronze star for those who had been cited at the regiment or brigade level.
a silver star, for those who had been cited at the division level.
a silver gilt star for those who had been cited at the corps level.

Sincerily user:Paris75000 11:19, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Upcased Guerre

11-June-2007 (revised 12Jun07): In the style of American English medals, the French word "guerre" is usually displayed as uppercase in "Croix de Guerre" (even in many French webpages), although the French usage is about 50% lowercase ("Croix de guerre"). I have converted most of the English Wikipedia article to use the upcased form. Supporting the upcased title are the 668 wikilinks: 62% to upcased "Croix de Guerre" and many to "French Croix de Guerre" (with perhaps 34% of wikilinks to lowercase "Croix de guerre"). Considering that French uses much lowercase, such as months ("avril"), I was shocked to find about half the French webpages using the upcased form (in the French language), but not upcased "palme" (as in Croix de Guerre avec palme). Overall, I suggest focusing the English usage as upcased "Guerre" whether or not the article gets moved/renamed for uppercase. There are several WP articles that redirect to the current lowercase name (such as medal abbreviation "CdeG"). -Wikid77 15:27, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 02:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)