Talk:Coup de grâce

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Contents 1 When I search for "mercy killing" shouldn't it direct me to euthanasia? 2 Title? 3 Pronounciation 4 A Wictionary Entry? 5 A Clockwork Orange 6 Love in the Time of Cholera"

[edit] When I search for "mercy killing" shouldn't it direct me to euthanasia?

At the very least, shouldn't there be a disambiguation page? I somehow doubt that most people who search for "mercy killing" are hoping to find out about James Bond et al.Figureground 22:13, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Title?

is the title of this article correct? if i'm not mistaken, the diacritical in 'gras' is an acute, not a circumflex.

nothing notable encyclopedia-wise. the last sentence is so general that it doesn't actually mean anything that isn't in the defintion.

[edit] Pronounciation

Coup de grâce is properly pronounced in French as [kud ɡʁas] (2 syllables, not 3). In English it is often pronounced [ku də ɡɹa], which is the pronunciation of coup de gras, "blow of fat" in French. The plural is coups de grâce ("blows of mercy"), pronounced the same as the singular form.

I've taken a couple of years of French and I have to ask -- why would the "coup de" contract to a single syllable whereas the other does not? Is it idiomatic or is the author just trying to throw something humorous into the mix?

This might be a mistake, I dont think he wanted to insert any humor in there.

Actually, I was thinking the same thing. I've heard native French speakers say "coup de grace" and while they blur through the "de" rather quickly and de-emphasize it, it's clearly a distinct syllable. But then again, linguists make all kinds of weird claims that run totally contrary to fact, like when they say "helpin" has the same number of morphemes (sounds) as "helping" even though to most people's ears, the former quite clearly omits the g rather than replaces it.

The claim in the article is analagous to saying "English speakers pronounce 'Would you ever...' with three syllables" on the grounds that people often slur it together so quickly that it sounds almost like "woodj'ever". It should be sourced or removed. MrVoluntarist 03:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, looks like the Hyperforeignism article confirms the true French pronunciation has three syllables. Hm. MrVoluntarist 03:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think any linguist would write of "morphemes (sounds)". Linguists would say that helpin' and helping have the same number of morphemes (meaningful units) as well as the same number of phonemes (sounds). Helpin does not lack the /g/ sound; rather, it has the /n/ sound in place of the /ŋ/ sound. The word <helpin>, when compared with <helping> does lack the letter <g> (and letters, or orthography, are shown by writing angle brackets around them, thus <g>). One can say that [ɪn] and [ɪŋ] are allomorphs (variations) of |iŋ|, which in English is used, among other things, to show progressive aspect. Interlingua ^{talk email} 02:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, see, the problem is just that everyone who hears "helpin'" versus "helping" hears the same sounds in the latter as the former, except that the latter has an additional 'g'. That's why it's hard to accept that it's a mere substitution. Btw, my parenthetical above was a simplication, not a synonym, but thanks for the nitpick. MrVoluntarist 16:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

On the top we have The expression coup de grâce (pronounced /ku de'gra/) whereas later on The French pronunciation of the phrase is [ku də gras] (which I find correct). So sholudn't there be the [ku də gras] (or /ku de'gras/) pronounciation ot top, too (with 's' at the end)? Loirel 22:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Mostly, in French one will typically pronounce the phrase kud ɡʁas, even in formal or pedagogocal settings. So the letter e in the word de is silent. And as for the paragraph about "hyperforeignism", that seems a bit off-topic. Most words of foreign origin can mispronounced, or - over time - can be adapted to the language in which it is used. There are thousands of examples of this in the history of the English language, it is a simple and uncontroversial fact that languages evolve, and so do loan-words. I think one editor came to think of other Frenchisms such as foie gras or perhaps mardi gras and so inserted a rather irrelevant rambling about this into the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.113.8.241 (talk) 17:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A Wictionary Entry?

I see a link to look up the word in Wictionary, but it's not in Wictionary. Why on Earth put that in the article???

Because the link to wiktionary, along with a few other parts of the text, misspells it as coupe de grace. I'll fix it.

[edit] A Clockwork Orange

The article mentions Alex killing a large inmate while in prison, but this never happened in the film. I'm quite familar with the film but I don't recall when that line was spoken in actuality. Could someone verify which scene it was really spoken in? 66.44.154.30 04:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

It's in the book, not the movie. I'll take care of it. 164.107.249.200 07:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Love in the Time of Cholera"

References made to in Gabriel García Márquez's novel Love in the Time of Cholera. Those suffering from cholera were shot in the back of the head to end their suffering quicker.

I removed this; the original addition was made by Fallchild369. I see from talk that there used to be something in this article about A Clockwork Orange, which is no longer here. If that's not considered relevant, neither is this. At any rate, even if it is relevant, this seems like an afterthought. Patrick O'Leary (talk) 16:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC)