Talk:Council house

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Contents 1 RTB discount 2 Arms Length Management Organisations and Large Scale Vomuntary Transfer 3 Largest council estate in the country? 4 Not Just in Britain 5 Apogee → Heyday 6 New Picture 7 Criticisms not thorough enough 8 List of estates 9 Photographs 10 Media section 11 link to official site

[edit] RTB discount

Can you supply a cite for the 70% discount? I'm not saying you are wrong, but when my mum and dad bought their house in 1991 it was with a full discount (33 years residence) and it was 60% (subject to a max of £50,000) Icundell 22:58, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Here you go: http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_housing/documents/page/odpm_house_024003-02.hcsp#P43_6642 The 70% only applied/applies to flats. Incidentally, I like the way this page is slowly growing, with little bits added here and there. This is how it should be! Redlentil 15:57, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cheers. I think that should be made clear in the article since it implies that flats (damp, leaky, no green space) are much harder to get rid of than houses (72 foot back garden). Thoughts? Icundell 16:34, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I've had a go, but it could no doubt be more elegantly phrased. Please have a look. I've also added some thoughts on the current position but it's a bit wooly. Given your contribution to Geography of the UK on regional disparity, of which this is an example, you may well have something to add. (We seem to frequent the same sites. Are you sure you're not me? Redlentil 21:27, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Have we ever been seen together in public? Icundell

The discount stuff was fine. I rejigged the 'stigma' section a bit, as much to avoid 'asylum seeker' seeming pejorative as anything. Icundell 21:46, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Arms Length Management Organisations and Large Scale Vomuntary Transfer

This is my first time using Wikipedia so I'm surfing around bits to see how it works. It's wrong to end this article with the decline of Council Housing. the use of ALMO's and LSVT has been used to good effect in investing in the stock and introducing some flair, similar to Housing Associations, into the market. How is an extension to the article commissioned?

• It's not commissioned - you just do it! Go right ahead and add to the article. That's what Wikipedia is all about. (Welcome, by the way!) Don't worry about spoiling someone else's article - one of the things people here know is that nothing is private property: anything you write can be edited by anybody else. I'm sure there's useful stuff to be added about ALMOs etc, so anything you can add will be really worth doing. Redlentil 19:12, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Largest council estate in the country?

This article says Becontree, Aylesbury Estate says it is. How do we measure - and do we have sources? Secretlondon 09:38, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

There seem to be a huge number of claimants to this title. Out article on Becontree gives a figure of 27,000 houses, while the Aylesbury Estate has only 2,700. Other claimants include Wythenshawe (population about 80,000) and Bransholme (population about 40,000). One difficulty is counting what exactly is a council estate - many developments had some houses for sale for the start, and in drawing boundaries - for instance, much of northern Sheffield consists of council estates, which if counted together might well be as large as any of these, but they are generally thought of as seperate areas. Warofdreams talk 16:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes - I think I've heard the title given to the Grahame Park estate in Hendon too. What is an estate? It could be argued that 27,000 is a town. Secretlondon 18:03, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Becontree is seen as just one estate by the Post Office, so that seems enough to justify its position.

We need a list (from somewhere authoritative) of the biggest estates in the country. This will stop people keep adding their local estate as one of the biggest in a strange form of inverse local pride. Any idea where we should look for one - the specialist housing press? Secretlondon 21:54, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The Guardian is claiming the Aylesbury again - as the largest in Europe! It's not even close. [1]. ps removed bnp style crap ranting about "ethnics". 90.192.184.31 01:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not Just in Britain

Council houses are found around the world

one of the estates in my town is known as smatieland coz of all the different coloured houses

Would this be NL? --TGC55 23:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Apogee → Heyday

Minor change: Retitled the section discussing the boom years of council housing construction from Apogee to Heyday. The titles of the other sections were fairly straightforward; "Apogee" didn't seem to mesh well with them stylistically. Doonhamer 01:51, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Picture

Can a registered user please add the picture at the top of the Seacroft, Leeds page under the current picture. Seacroft is one of the biggest council estates in the country and the picture seems fitting. Thanks. 80.47.210.67 21:08, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I've fixed the picture - but 18,000 isn't that big. It seems common for a local estate to be seen as the largest in the country, europe etc - I can think of several claimants in this bit of London alone, and as the article says, Beacontree has 100,000. Secretlondon 22:16, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

We also need to be careful that we don't imply that all council estates are 1960s tower blocks - they aren't. Secretlondon 22:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

If you read the heyday section this is made quite clear. Icundell 13:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes but pictures of just tower blocks give a strong impression, picture speaking 1,000 words etc. Secretlondon 19:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the picture Secretlondon. 80.47.211.228 19:46, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticisms not thorough enough

It states that asian and black populations "could not initially live" on estates, but provides no reason why. Was it a policy, either overt or covert? Was it simply reactionary pressure from racist tenants? Or what?

Also it says this problem has subsided recently. Again, why? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.78.23.54 (talk) 01:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

You had to be a resident of the local area to gain council houseing. After a while, they had lived locally long enough to be eligible for council housing. Epa101 08:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of estates

Someone has added Castle Vale as "a particularly notable example". That article claims it was the largest in the UK when it was built. The problem is that about 50 estates are claimed locally to the the largest in the UK, in Europe etc. We *need* an authoritative list of council estates by size. I'm concerned we are just repeating local folklore here. Secretlondon 12:24, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I suspect it's one of those situations where an awful lot of people can be right, given the vague definition of "estate" - does, for example, Becontree count as a single estate or a bunch of houses that just happen to be near each other? Does the Barbican Estate count as a council estate, and if so do you only count the residential units or include the huge commercial, educational and arts complexes on the site? (FWIW, Shakespeare Tower on the Barbican is the tallest council-owned housing block in the country.) Plus just to add to the fun, some of the best known estates are relatively small - Blackbird Leys, Broadwater Farm, Byker, Divis Flats (which I'm shocked to see is a redlink), North Peckham Estate etc etc etc. Personally I think this article is getting too skewed towards being about council estates and not council housing — iridescent (talk to me!) 16:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photographs

The photographs now make it look like council houses are only towerblocks. There are many examples of social housing in the UK that are low rise. We are giving a distorted picture with all these photos. Secretlondon 12:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Part of it's no doubt that tower blocks are distinctive, while normal council houses just look like any other house. A bigger problem is that everything's relatively new-build; not only are there no 30s low-rises, but there's no conversions; certainly in the South, a good-size chunk of council stock dates back 100-200 years (such as the rows of Georgian houses in Kings Cross) — iridescent (talk to me!) 21:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

To give an example - my estate is a Victorian terrace. I agree that tower blocks are distinctive - but Council housing doesn't necessarily = brutalism. You do get 1930s LCC estates locally - they are quite different looking to the 1960s ones. We need some proper research really - % of different types etc. I'm sure it'll be in specialist publications somewhere. Secretlondon 22:57, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Something else that's likely skewing it is - while this is just a gut feeling - I suspect "normal" houses and low-rise flats are far more likely to have been "right-to-buyed" then tower block flats and the "concrete lump" style of architecture, which has probably been skewing the figures in recent years. (I'd guess a far higher percentage of Broadwater Farm is council-owned than Becontree.) — iridescent (talk to me!) 19:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I suspect that if a contributor wanted to take a picture of a "council house" they'd go to the local high rise estate - they wouldn't think that some local low rises were Council housing unless they knew. I suspect Wikipedia's demographic is such that the vast majority of contributors don't live in social housing.. (This is a hunch from the edits to articles like chav) Secretlondon 22:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Have added images of low-rise housing. (BTW, you'd have to go a long way to find a "local high-rise estate" in many parts of the country, Secretlondon!). One of the problems with this article is that it is called "Council house" but is in fact about "Council housing". A council house is a ...house. What you have in high-rise blocks are council flats. -- Picapica 13:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I've added an image of some 1990s new-build council housing as well (yes, they are still building them...) - it was getting quite heavy on 1930s low rises & 1960s tower blocks — iridescent (talk to me!) 21:45, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Media section

Does anyone have any strong opinions on the merits of the Media section? IMO this is a clear example of a disorganized and unselective list which adds nothing to the article — but since so many people seem to have added to it (and to have edited this article without removing it) I don't really want to delete it without consensus — iridescent (talk to me!) 16:13, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] link to official site

how bout putting a link to the official website of the council housing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.229.205 (talk) 12:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)