Template talk:Cornwall

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	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cornwall, an attempt to improve and expand Wikipedia coverage of Cornwall and all things Cornish. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project member page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.	Cornwall Portal
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See drop-down box for suggested article edit guidelines: Shortcut: WP:Cornwall Articles are written using a standard set of headings (see suggestions for article structure here). This is to maintain consistency between Cornwall articles and to improve the quality of entries through a constant style of writing. These headings are, however, plastic and in a state of flux and although we welcome suggestions or improvements, we would appreciate discussion before any major changes to the layout yourself. Be bold - if you know something about Cornwall then put it in! We value your contributions and don't be afraid if your spelling isn't great as there are plenty of spelling and grammar experts on clean-up duty! At WikiProject Cornwall we subscribe to the policies laid down by Wikipedia - particularly civility and consensus building. We are aware that the wording on Cornish entries can sometimes be a contentious topic, especially those concerning geography. You don't have to agree with everything but there is no excuse for rudeness and these things are best solved through consensus building and compromise. For more information see WP:CornwallGuideline. These pages are not platforms for political discussion. Issues relating to Cornish politics should be restricted to those pages that directly deal with these issues (such as Constitutional status of Cornwall, Cornish self-government movement, etc) and should not overflow into other articles. Most of all have fun editing - that's the reason we all do this, right?!

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Contents 1 Convert to footer 2 Current discussion moved from MacRusgailtalk page 3 Features and changes 4 Redesign 5 Using the County Template? 6 Hugh Town 7 Consistency

[edit] Convert to footer

This needs to be converted into a footer nav box in line with Template:Lincolnshire, Template:Tyne and wear, Template:Greater Manchester etc. MRSC 20:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

That may be sensible. (Maybe this template would survive deletion from pages better if it were a footer; I notice somebody's going around and removing it from everywhere it was included. And marking their edits as minor.)

As a model, Template:Lincolnshire is pretty boring, I'm afraid. What would people say to a more jazzed-up alternative that listed various topics along the lines of Template:India topics ... albeit on a much smaller scale, of course! Like Template:India topics, this one could go at the bottom in a "See also" section. QuartierLatin1968 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Jazz it up by all means (although in keeping with other infobox styles). I'd like to see a standard that can be used for all such county nav boxes rather than the variety of styles on offer at present. MRSC 06:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current discussion moved from MacRusgailtalk page

Hi - Whilst I agree that nav bars often help to navigate around wikipedia, what I've removed from the Cornwall pages I felt were cluttering the articles, many of which already have far too many nav bars as it is. All of the links contained within it and more are already linked to at List of topics related to Cornwall. Whilst I am not familiar with History of the Jews in Scotland(?) ,I have put in a lot of work in across Cornwall pages and am dedicated to improving this particular niche of pages so what I have done was not an arbitary decision as you have implied. When this template was placed indiscriminately across all the Cornwall pages before, I removed it and explained my reasoning here at User talk:Lofty#Cornwall_Template. However, the user could not be bothered to response to this so I don't really think I'm acting out of place in removing what I think is unsuitable this time. Something like this should be discussed with the wider community - there is a Cornwall portal and a wikiproject which are suitable forums for this. I'm quite happy to discuss how the bar can be modified to make it more relevent and look less cluttered. take care Mammal4 13:57, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The Duchy of Lancashire and other most other UK areas have their own nav box ! A nav box would be helpful for some Cornish articles.

Not disputing that nav boxes are useful - just that the current one being applied could be better designed and less cluttered and also more descriminately applied to articles, especially if there are already many existing boxes on that page (a can't see the wood for the trees effect) take care Mammal4 08:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Which is why I am currently redesigning the Cornish nav box. --MacRusgail 14:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC) p.s. I didn't write the comment you just replied to.

Ok - maybe some discussion would help the redesign? Mammal4 12:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC) ps sorry for confusing you with the anon author - from the pattern of page edits I thought it was you not being logged in Mammal4

I have been working on something similar to the England and Scotland navigation boxes. I thought something more complicated might be useful for Cornwall, due to its complex history, political situation and language etc. --MacRusgail 15:07, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I definitely think that a show hide feature would be an asset - that way the topics can be covered in the depth they deserve whilst the template remains innocuous. I also think it should stretch across the whole page not just two thirds length. It would be nice to theme the colour scheme too - maybe something in Cornish colours (Black, yellow white)? Maybe also a small Cornwall map as I have done with this template I made for Cornish parishes Mammal4 16:08, 21 September 2006 (UTC) ps I'm moving this discussion to the template discussion page Mammal4

[edit] Features and changes

For the record, I'm all in favour of a show/hide feature. It's beyond my own wiki-knowledge, but go for it please! QuartierLatin1968 20:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redesign

Hi all,

I have redesigned the portal with Cornish gold, smaller images, show/hide ability, easy edit markers and added Main Cornish Settlements from the existing template. As such I will add this one to the relevant pages. Lots more could be put here, let's see what. --A Cornish Pasty 20:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Beautiful! You know, I was playing around with shades of gold myself, but couldn't find a solution I liked. Excellent new features all around. QuartierLatin1968 22:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

'Ansom! Mammal4 08:07, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Using the County Template?

Would it be any better to change this template to use the County template as the baseline? At the moment, the county template doesn't have the option for a flag but it could always be added if required. WOSlinker 20:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Current Template

• Proposed Template

  v • d • e Ceremonial county of Cornwall Cornwall Portal Unitary authorities Isles of Scilly Boroughs or districts Restormel • Penwith • Kerrier • Carrick • Caradon • North Cornwall Cities and towns Bodmin • Bude • Camborne • Falmouth • Hayle • Helston • Launceston • Liskeard • Newquay • Penzance • Redruth • Saltash • St Austell • St Ives • Truro • Wadebridge See also: List of civil parishes in Cornwall Topics History • Status debate • Flag • Culture • Language • Places • Famous people • The Duchy • Nationalism • People • Diocese • Politics • Hundreds/shires  • full list...

Personally I'm against it; I don't see why all templates need to look the same and I don't think that one in particular looks any better than the current one, however I can see why people would want consistency across the board. --A Cornish Pasty 01:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm all for it myself (but I am a sucker for consistency). I think it looks great! I'm looking into putting something together to incorporate a crest or flag for this template which I think will help. Is it feasible to convert over to the standard style? --Jza84 |  Talk  12:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

While the template looks fine the title may be a cause for concern as many view Cornwall as a Celtic nation - how about "Ceremonial county of Cornwall/Celtic nation of Cornwall" or just plain "Cornwall" ? Can anyone point me in the direction of the discussion regarding the agreement for the change on the Cornwall pages ? Tamke (talk) 18:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hugh Town

I have added Hugh Town to the list of settlements, as it is the administrative centre of the Isles of Scilly. --MacRusgail 16:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Consistency

Hello,

The use of Template:County has been editted out of this template, knocking it out of line with the rest of England (see here). The revision doesn't add anything to the template other than "localise" the look according to singular preference rather than the widely used, standard version. --Jza84 |  Talk  11:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Jza84 is editing the Template:Cornwall to be "consistent" with other English templates, but in doing so he is removing topics from the box and making it generally less useful. He also claims to be doing this as per the "talk", which as you can see above consists of him saying he likes a proposed change, then editing it one hour later stating "convert template over per talk" without waiting for any consensus or discussion. Now if there was a consensus for it to be changed, I would be all for it, but I don't see the point of implementing consistency for consistency's sake especially when the change actually detracts from the usefulness of the template. --Joowwww (talk) 11:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Let's keep discussion on the content, not contributor please. One contributor suggested it, I agreed, there were no objections - a consensus and discussion was formed. Can you explain what these topics are that I'm removing? Can you assure me that you're not wanting to "localise" this template because of your desire to promote yourself as a Cornishman not Englishman?? --Jza84 |  Talk  11:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I thought you wanted to keep discussion on the content, not the contributor? Me being Cornish or English is irrelevant, and I could easily come to the conclusion of your strong desire for consistency across all UK county articles due to the unionist userboxes you splash on your userpage. Back to the content, and if you look at the template as it is now you will see there are many wikilinks to Cornwall-related articles, many of which were not present on your proposed change. If the change was able to be made without losing those links I would be fine with it. I don't care what it looks like, my point was (as I have already stated) that your change detracts from the usefullness, which in the grand scheme of things is what it all comes down to, not what it looks like. --Joowwww (talk) 11:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Can you explain why? Anybody can say any change is "not useful", what we need is some logic. Again, what is this material that I've been removing? - that's a rhetorical question on my part; Template:County actually adds more content and value. --Jza84 |  Talk  11:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The "current template" displayed in the (year-old) thread above is not the actual current template, which includes more links to Cornwall-related topics, and groups them acccording to themes. I prefer the version restored by Joowwww (the "actual current template" shewn below), as it makes navigation easier. DuncanHill (talk) 12:02, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Actual current template

v • d • e Cornwall-related topics History Timeline · Kingdom of Cornwall · Hundreds · During the Civil War · 1497 Uprising · Prayer Book Rebellion · Legendary Dukes of Cornwall Geography Districts Penwith · Kerrier · Carrick · Restormel · Caradon · North Cornwall · Isles of Scilly Topics Settlements · Geology · Conservation areas · Flora and Fauna · Rivers Politics Parliamentary constituencies · Self-government movement · Status debate · Cornish Assembly · Mebyon Kernow Economy Communication · Media · Fishing · Mining · Tourism · Transport Culture Cornish people · Language · Flag · Festivals · Literature · Rugby · Cuisine · Music Other Notable residents · Duchy · Diocese · Diaspora · full list of topics... See also: Cornwall Portal · WikiProject Cornwall

Version proposed

v • d • e Ceremonial county of Cornwall Cornwall Portal Unitary authorities Isles of Scilly Boroughs or districts Restormel • Penwith • Kerrier • Carrick • Caradon • North Cornwall Cities and towns Bodmin • Bude • Camborne • Falmouth • Hayle • Helston • Launceston • Liskeard • Newquay • Penzance • Redruth • Saltash • St Austell • St Ives • Truro • Wadebridge See also: List of civil parishes in Cornwall Topics History • Status debate • Flag • Culture • Language • Places • People • The Duchy • Nationalism • People • Diocese • Politics • Hundreds/shires  • full list...

Can you explain why? That version has links to non-existent pages, categories-not-articles, several forks for Cornish Nationalism (like a Cornish Assembly article), and multiple poorly-sourced pages like Rugby in Cornwall. I oppose the version restored by Joowww as it makes navigation more difficult and more confusing. --Jza84 |  Talk  12:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I like the thematic arrangement of links, redlinks serve as an encouragement to editors to write articles, and if an article needs better sourcing then that is a reason for improving the sourcing, not for not linking to it! DuncanHill (talk) 12:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

And the "Easter-egg" links to categories? The content in some sections appears completely arbitary, with no criteria for inclusion. Also, should this style be adopted for the test of England then? --Jza84 |  Talk  12:20, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

(ec)Some subjects are currently better represented by a link to a category (I think it is only 2 at the moment - rivers and cuisine), I see no problem with that. When articles are written then the links can be amended. Content of sections seems reasonably rational to me, but of course you could propose changes here if you wish. I have no comment about other county boxes, this box was developed by the relevant wikiproject, and until now there have been no objections. DuncanHill (talk) 12:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

If the Template:County was able to have extra groups added to it, it would be easy to incorporate those topics into it, and also for other counties, but the way it is now is a real step back. There are only a couple of notable rivers and with the change to unitary status coming next year, the template would be nothing but a list of towns and a few topics. I intended to turn all those red links blue and turn category-links into articles, but as time went on my interest waned and I moved on to other projects, and instead of getting rid of them I kept them there in case any other contributor wanted to start them. They may soon be filled anyway as my interest in Cornwall related pages is increasing again. --Joowwww (talk) 12:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Additional: There appears to be some (albeit old) discussion on Template talk:County to change Template:County to look more like Template:Cornwall. (edit: the version of it as of Feb 07) --Joowwww (talk) 12:39, 28 April 2008 (UTC)