Talk:Cordon sanitaire
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[edit] Non-inscrits
Although party groups exist in the European Parliament, they are not essential to its functioning. They do get subsidies though, and of course it might make for easier political marketing. But there is no cordon sanitaire, since MEPs are elected not on party group tickets but on national party tickets. Intangible 17:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- Can you give examples of proposals by EP-members introduced by both democratic parties and say, Vlaams Belang or Front National ? If there are such proposals (more than the odd one out), I'll agree there is no Cordon Sanitaire in the EP. --LucVerhelst 18:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- In general, legislation is introduced first by the European Commission, see European Union legislative procedure. Intangible 18:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- Right. Can you give examples of proposed amendments, or are you just trying to avoid the discussion ? --LucVerhelst 20:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- I am not sure how 'small' you cordon sanitaire tissue has to be to contain the mere 3 VB members and 7 Front National members in the 732-member European Parliament. Intangible 21:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- 7 FN, 3 VB, 1 FPÖ, 1 Nezdem (CZ), 4 Lega Nord, 1 A.Mussolini, 1 Fiamma Tricolore, 4 Samoobrona RP (PL), 1 DUP, that's 23 MEP's. You mean they can't persuade the other parties to jointly propose amendments or motions ? --LucVerhelst 21:22, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- I am not sure if they even want to support each others amendments. Intangible 21:25, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- You are avoiding a mature discussion. --LucVerhelst 21:58, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- Those Non-inscrits are further divided over various parliamentary commissions, thus making their 'power' even less. Furthermore, members of political groups in the EP have more 'rights' than Non-inscrits. This is intrinsic to the EP system, you can hardly call it a cordon sanitaire (although there might have been a rational behind the lesser 'power' of Non-inscrits). It is more appropriately talked about in the Non-inscrits article. Intangible 22:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- Indeed. But in the EP, "there are considerable differences between this Group structure and most national parliaments' party structure. The rules of the Parliament state that "no member shall receive a binding mandate", and as a result, Group discipline is far laxer than most party political discipline" (see Member of the European Parliament), so you'd expect some form of cooperation. Since there seems to be none whatsoever, I think you can fairly say there effectively is a cordon sanitaire in the European Parliament. --LucVerhelst 08:52, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- This discourse here is OR though. Intangible 21:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- You are avoiding a mature discussion. --LucVerhelst 21:58, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- I am not sure if they even want to support each others amendments. Intangible 21:25, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- 7 FN, 3 VB, 1 FPÖ, 1 Nezdem (CZ), 4 Lega Nord, 1 A.Mussolini, 1 Fiamma Tricolore, 4 Samoobrona RP (PL), 1 DUP, that's 23 MEP's. You mean they can't persuade the other parties to jointly propose amendments or motions ? --LucVerhelst 21:22, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- I am not sure how 'small' you cordon sanitaire tissue has to be to contain the mere 3 VB members and 7 Front National members in the 732-member European Parliament. Intangible 21:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- Right. Can you give examples of proposed amendments, or are you just trying to avoid the discussion ? --LucVerhelst 20:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- In general, legislation is introduced first by the European Commission, see European Union legislative procedure. Intangible 18:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi there -- I was the one who added the graph about the cordon sanitare in the EP. My point was not that the EP functions like a typical parliament with coalitions and the like -- I know it doesn't. My point was more the formation of the party groups. There is a cordon sanitare in that certain parties represented in the EP are seen as so far out of the mainstream that none of the party groups will admit them. Vlaams Belang and Austria's Freedom Party are definitely in this category; Northern Ireland's DUP may also be in this category. --Jfruh (talk) 20:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- To create a political group in the EP you need 19 members from at least 1/5 of the member states. There is definitely critism against this, but this should be put on the Non-inscrits page, and not here. Intangible 22:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what your point is about the numbers needed to form a group. I'm not even saying that all of the Non-Inscrtis are being deliberately shunned. I'm just saying that the "mainstream" parliamentary parties have refused to allow some of the Non-Inscrits to join mainstream groups because they are deemed too ideologically out of the mainstream. This applies to the FPO and Vlaams Belang especially. Surely though the mechanics are different, this is the same idea behind the refusal to form coalitions with Vlaams Belang at the national level in Belgium, or to form coalitions with the Left Party in Germany. --Jfruh (talk) 14:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- Who says the Vlaams Belang wants to align itself with a political group? Intangible 21:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what your point is about the numbers needed to form a group. I'm not even saying that all of the Non-Inscrtis are being deliberately shunned. I'm just saying that the "mainstream" parliamentary parties have refused to allow some of the Non-Inscrits to join mainstream groups because they are deemed too ideologically out of the mainstream. This applies to the FPO and Vlaams Belang especially. Surely though the mechanics are different, this is the same idea behind the refusal to form coalitions with Vlaams Belang at the national level in Belgium, or to form coalitions with the Left Party in Germany. --Jfruh (talk) 14:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
