Talk:Comparison of Canadian and American football
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This was broken out as a separate article because the original Canadian football article was becoming so long. Rlquall 03:52, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] terminology
Because this is now its own article, some of the terminology must be altered from Canadian to universal.
[edit] One point plays in American football
The article says
- Other than conversions, there is no single-point score in American football
There is, however, a one-point safety, at least in NCAA football. See, for example, [1]. I suppose the text in the article covers this case (as the safety was scored on a conversion attempt), but I think the text is misleading. I don't understand the NCAA rule well enough to characterize it for the article, but perhaps someone with more knowledge can. Molinari 23:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
- The only one-point scores in American football are all conversions: a touchdown during a conversion attempt is worth two points, while a field goal or safety is worth one. So, as of 2005, the only way for a football game to end 1-0 in the US is for it to be a forfeit. (As of...2003 I think was the last time, a high school game under Georgia's state-specific rules could end 1-0 through the old "penetration" overtime system, but that's another matter entirely.) C.Fred 02:02, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Team size
From the "Team size" section of the article: "on the defensive end of the ball, two safeties are employed instead of one."
The suggestion that American football employs only one safety is wrong. American football features two safeties (free safety and strong safety) in the base defense (usually 4 linemen, 3 linebackers, 2 cornerbacks, and 2 safeties).
Something else I read somewhere there is often an extra linebacker in Canadian football (4-4?), or something called a "defensive halfback". We don't have defensive halfbacks in American football.
Perhaps someone familiar with Canadian football can fix this. (Or I can do it sometime when I have time to research it.) - gohlkus 02:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Metric
Is it necessary to have metric conversions? Distances in both North American football codes are measured in yards, not metres. Iceberg3k 11:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yes. They're in as a courtesy to international readers or Canadians unfamiliar with imperial measurement. At least in defining the dimensions of the field and goals, they should be present. —C.Fred (talk) 12:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- After re-reading the article, there are some excessive conversions. I would say, in the definitions of the field and the ball, use them. Since the rest of the measurements are by rule (e.g. 15 yard penalties), do not convert. —C.Fred (talk) 14:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Kicker advancing the ball
This part is sort of unclear to me:
"Kicker advancing the ball
The Canadian kicker, or a player behind the kicker when he kicks the ball, may recover his own kick and advance with the ball. American kickers are not allowed to do so, except on a kick-off, when the kicker and anyone behind him (i.e., the entire team, lest they be off-side), are eligible to recover the ball, so long as it has progressed at least ten yards down the field; hence the "onside kick" play. Canadian football extends this principle to all kicks, including those downfield."
Does this mean on kickoffs or punts? Because if it's punts, then most of the players would be in front of the punter, right?
--Awiseman 20:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yes. I think it's just a round-about way of saying on-side players may recover a kick. DoubleBlue (Talk) 21:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- True. Teams may leave a (usually very speedy) man in the backfield to recover a kick, but this is usually when a quick-kick is run as a trick play to gain yardage. But yes, everybody on a kickoff is onside—unless they're offside at the kick, of the 5-yard penalty variety. On punts, generally only the punter is onside. —C.Fred (talk) 00:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- It's still pretty confusing however, could one of you two rewrite it? I don't want to do it and mess it up further. --Awiseman 18:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] History
The second paragraph starts Football was introduced to North America...
Was this Rugby (as the above paragraph implies), Soccer, or another form? Ubermonkey 21:08, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- As I understand it, it was rugby but the rules were pretty loose in those days and evolved into North American football gradually. Canadian football was, in fact, called rugby football into the 1950s. DoubleBlue (Talk) 23:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Because the evolution is beyond the scope of this article, I have made the word "introduced" in the above quote as a link to History of American football. That gives the reader quick access to the history. —C.Fred (talk) 23:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Could this be put in a table?
I was thinking that this would look cleaner in a table, and various forms of north american football could be added (i.e. NCAA ruleset, NFL ruleset, XFL ruleset,Arena Football .....) Duke toaster 19:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- The problem is, a lot of this lends itself to narrative form, and multiple columns would look ugly. By contrast, I think a table would be appropriate in American football rules when discussing penalties and yardage, but that's another matter entirely. —C.Fred (talk) 00:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
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- I agree with Duke toaster that a table would be cleaner but I also agree with C.Fred that it may be too difficult to make clean and clear in a table. See [2] for an example. Perhaps a briefer version could be made in a table with just the highlights after all the narrative explanations. DoubleBlue (Talk) 04:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Dialect choice
Football articles are rough for US/Canada border stories, because offen[cs]e, defen[ce], and cent[er|re] are important to the terminology. I know for first reference the last, it's done as center (centre in Canada). We interchange throughout the article, though, with the first two. What should the convention be? Since it's used in generic usage to cover both, we can't go by the code being discussed all the time. It's a minor issue, but it's something a reader would notice, especially if we want someday to make a featured article out of this. I'm also on the fence about which dialect to use (but leaning Canadian). Does anybody have a compelling reason to use one or the other? —C.Fred (talk) 06:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- I'll disclose my bias for Canadian spelling first but, nevertheless, make a plea for it. Articles on American things can be reasonably expected to be spelled American. This particular article is on an inherently international interest and, therefore, should be spelled in the international English. Only the United States changed "centre" to "center", while the rest of the English-speaking world has maintained the original. DoubleBlue (Talk) 01:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Possible retooling and move
I just read the Gridiron football page, wich is little more than a glorified DAB page with no sources. Merging the article with something else has been discussed, but no concensus was reached. One user mentioned redirect that page to North American football, but there is no such page. THis got me thinking that perhaps we could merge Gridiron football and this page, and move the result to North American football. This page already includes a short history of both variants, and could be expanded some more. THe differences section is probably fine as-is. One alternative is just to move the history section to North American football, merging it with Gridiron football, and leaving the differences section here. Comments? - BillCJ 01:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
