Talk:Comparative religion

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Contents

[edit] "Taoic Religions"

Is there any consensus of updating the romanization of this? The longer it refers to "Tao" the more people are going to mispronounce it. Also, if that's not acceptable then the article on "De" should be changed to "Te" for consistency's sake.192.160.165.63 05:53, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

Religion is an hypothesis designed to find peace-of-mind. When fleetingly found it is called Blessedness, Grace, Bliss, Nirvana, etc; when lost again, anguish.

Descriptions of a Religion are properties of that Religion; not its essence, which for all of them, is seeking to find peace-of-mind.

Yesselman 22:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

This section wsa removed from the article... It's original research, lack encyclopedic-style information, links to an external website inappropriately (yours, I might add, violating the Wikipedia:Spam policy), has lots of improper capitalization, and just really makes no sense for this article... I see from your contribution history that you are trying similar things across a variety of articles... Please go check out the Wikipedia:Community Portal and read up on what this encyclopedia is for, how it works, what its policies are, and so forth. DreamGuy 00:02, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Will do. Yesselman 13:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Inaccuracies

There are a couple of inaccuracies that I've found in this article, namely in the Islamic column. Most Islamic scholars agree that Christians are 'true believers' led astray to no fault of their own. As such, one would have to think that Islam is not the only way to reach God. Also, Historically, Muslims allowed other religious communities within their states. They were some flourished under Islamic rule, however, they were far from equal. Taxes were imposed upon the communities and the people in these communities were considered second class citizens. One would argue that this is not equal.

Steven Pound 19:17, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] L. Equality for Women

This part of the comparison is tricky considering the fact that the equality for women and Woman Rights concepts are rather new. In early teachings of both Judaism & Christianity, women weren't considered as equal to men. Until 20th century for both religious views & civil laws, women weren't equal to men in many continents of the world. So this concept is rather related to the civilization level of the culture practicing the religion rather than the religion itself. Any reference or conclusion about Islam can not be fully right without considering the under developed state of the Middle East.

In fact Republic of Turkey is one of the first countries to give women full equal rights (1926) despite the fact that its a mainly Muslim country.


[edit] Equality for Women

As mentioned above, it is difficult to judge a religion that was founded centuries ago, according to the 20th century values, specially on such newborn concepts like Women Equality. However, keynotes in the scriptures of these religions can help you understand the status that women hold in the religion's ideology.

For example, in the Quran of Islam, the equality of Men and Women in their freedom and accountability is highlighted in many verses:

4:124 If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them.

16:97 Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.

3:195 And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another".

In this verse God, not only highlights equality of accountability in the Hereafter but also, emphasizes the fact that Men and Women are equal components of the community.

As for social equality and equality of rights, this has also been highlighted:

2:228 And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable.

Furthermore, oppression against women -which was very common among the tribal values, back then- was prohibited in Islam:

4:19 O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

The prophetic traditions are also a valuable source of highlighting justice to women. In one of the prophetic traditions, Mohammad said: "They [Women] are the equals of Men." Eqaulity and justice to Women, in Islam, is not considered an act of charity or mercy towards a marginalized minority. On the contrary, the rights of Women and their equal status is as sacred as that of Men. The practice of these principles are affected, inevitably, by the community in which they are practiced, as culture surely affects people's interpretation of religious scriptures. In muslim countries nowadays, for example, Women are still fighting for their rights in the patriarchial communities. Ironically enough, they fight for their rights relying on the same verses of the Quran that God has revealed centuries ago. That is: God has liberated Women in Islam, 1400 years before the recent Women Liberation movements.

--Hazem M. Shoirah 08:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

".. God has liberated Women in Islam..." Only in words. In practice I have still to see that happen. I think thise issue with women equality is taken up more with Baha'ism than with Islam.

Bob Mar 16, 2007

[edit] The table with comparisons

I strongly disagree with inclusion of the table. This table strikes me as simplistic and original research, because based on personal generalization of practices and personal interpretations of scripture. For example, there are many different sects in Hinduism and it seems impossible to me to say "yes" for all these sects.Andries 20:15, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I think that re-insertion of the table can only be justified if each cell in the table is made as an attributed opinion with a reference to a good source. Andries 20:23, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Models of Religion

The section that starts "It should be noted that there are two kinds of religions:" is unattributed and reads like original research. It is interesting, but I couldn't independently validate this dichotomy. It needs citations at the very least, and probably attribution. The final element about the Gnosticism and Christianity seems particularly out of place without citation and attribution of who's research this is.

The terms 'social' and 'mind' models are not widely used, I cannot find them cited in scholarly papers and I haven't come across them before (although it is some years since my academic studies in comparative religion).

I suggest this section be removed soon unless suitable support can be provided.

Idmillington (talk) 21:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


Edit: After doing more research I have decided to remove this section for the time being. It was written by an unregistered user, the bulk of who's contributions relate to Gnosticism (hence the gnostic emphasis in the final non-NPOV paragraph). According to the Wikipedia guidelines an unreferenced and seemingly sprious section can be removed to the talk page to await citation unless this is likely to annoy an existing editor who merely forgot to cite the work.

The temporarily removed section is as follows:

It should be noted that there are two kinds of religions:
The first kind is a Society Model Religion which assumes that everything that happens on earth happens in said divine, otherworldly or invisible realm, therefore, God is maker and father of all. God rewards and punishes through messengers and various judgments handed down by laws. God loves and hates certain people in his creation, he is depicted as a human being. This is founded in human social interactions. According to the social model, God is Lord and as lord wants praise and worship. What matters is the interpersonal relationships among those he has created, both with each other and with the creator. These ideas are the basis of the western religions such as Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Because of adherence to a dogmatic style of thinking, adherents of society model religions often assume their scriptures are based on a historical point in time when in fact, like many religions and sects before them, the scriptures used myth and allegory within the narrative.
The second kind of religion is a Mind Model religion which assumes that the universe, whole reality and divine are thought to be like a mind, mental terms are formed in metaphor. In this model, the nature of reality can only be known through introspection and unlike the society model of religious adherence, salvation does not come from proper behavior, obedience and submission to the word of law. Rather, salvation comes from knowledge (e.g. Gnosis or Enlightenment), insight and meditation. It should be noted however that through meditation and insight self-discipline can be achieved. Mind Model religions are common in the eastern world religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism, and in esoteric western traditions such as Kabbalah and Gnosticism. There writings include myths and allegories; however they also have transformative properties that affect the reader who understands what is written.
It is dangerous to try and interpret a mind model religion into a society model religion as it will lead to misunderstanding. A great example would be the dispute between Gnosticism and Christianity where people believe that Gnosticism is an off-shoot of Christianity, when in fact it came before Christianity and was founded, in part, by a sect of Hellenized Jews who borrowed from even earlier traditions, therefore much misunderstanding has erupted over the nature and roots of Gnosticism.

Idmillington (talk) 21:54, 3 April 2008 (UTC)