Talk:Columbia, Missouri/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Heart of Little Dixie

I've removed: Columbia lies in the Heart of Little Dixie Region of Missouri. It is a term not used by the inhabitants of the region, and it is also inconsistent with the other Missouri city articles that don't state what region they are in. If anything it is a historical note, as it has little impact on how one locates the city today, for Columbians would use the term Mid-Missouri. As the opening is already quite full I think its best for the reasons above to remove it. Grey Wanderer | Talk 05:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph

Over time the opening paragraph had picked up a lot of random information and become disorganized, I've moved some stuff around and added quite a few sources. I also created a section for politics because there was a mass of info on it that had just grown over time. I hope it works for everyone. Grey Wanderer 10:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

To hell with the opening paragraph, I cleaned up the whole page, feel free to mess around with my occasionally poor syntax. Grey Wanderer 13:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone want to write anything concerning Columbia's expansion? I have lived here for three years and love it. It makes me somewhat sad though when I see trees being cut down and open land being torn up for ugly cookie-cutter houses. I am not anti-development (I'm all for the South of town and peripheral developments), but part of the charm of central columbia is its abundance of open land and forest land. I come from a large city with a singular lack of trees. I would hate to see Columbia go the same way. Perhaps if the city government was as progressive as it was made out, more land would be protected from development. An example of all this is the formerly Green, Meadows area.

That doesn't sound NPOV. 12.216.240.130 02:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The District

I just wanted to point out that the downtown area is not known as "The District", or at least it wasn't two years ago when I left. It was right around that time that somebody, probably in the chamber of commerce or something, got the idea that downtown needed to be called the district and I can remember joking around with a friend about how stupid that was. Downtown is simply downtown for any local. And it seems to me that a few sentences of this article read like they were written by maybe that same person in the Chamber of Commerce. Also, I would say that the majority of students are not local. Most come from St. Louis, K.C., the Lake area, or other parts of the state. During the summer months, the effects of the students' absence is easily felt in the traffic density around town. DustinG 14:16, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I can confirm this as well. I have not lived there for going on 6 years but I did live there for 22 years before that and can't imagine calling downtown 'the district'. Dalf | Talk 09:08, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I live here and go downtown pretty often and the only time and no one who actually goes there calls it the district. Sometimes OFFICIAL type things call it the district, but that's the only time i can think of downtown as the district.
I can further confirm this. I live downtown, on 5th street south of Broadway. The push to call it the district is pretty strong by the downtown association, excuse me, The District (tm) association. But it largely hasn't caught on. I suppose if they try long enough... Details of their intents are at www.downtowncolumbia.org (It'll redirect to the new name :)
After going home for xmass I can further confrim this. I did hear it called The District once on the radio so I asked my family about it. They scoffed. I suppose new commers to town might be convinced to use the new name but for people who have been there for very long it just does not fit. Dalf | Talk 08:30, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Yea there's a big push for "The District" that the locals (like me) hate. In 5 years it'll either be entreched or forgotten. The City Council is trying the whole "Branding" thing here ... like "Westport" or "The Plaza" is to Kansas City.
We might actually ad a section about this push. If you read their webpage its really quite silly they avoide the use of the term down town even when describing what area The District is in they say "Columbia's central city" and they bold and italic The District with every use even in the middle of sentences. I think we could add a (short) section about the effort (and that it is apparently lead by bussness in the area) with links to Brand management and Brand. Dalf | Talk 00:53, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It looks like The District" initiative is finally working, people are starting to refer to downtown that way, and business now advertise by saying located in the district Grey Wanderer 20:16, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, businesses like Shakespeare's that had a big deal to do with the 'name change' advertise such. Fact is, no one besides a few select business owners calls it 'the district' with a straight face. I'll find some article about the majority of downtowner's disdain for it.Rubyredstarfruit 05:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I live in Columbia, have done for 3 years. I hate the "District" title, but it seems slowly to be sticking. I hear it a lot on the radio and TV at any rate. Must admit I have not heard many people refer to downtown as the District in conversation.

Columbia recently added expensive blue signs directing visitors to downtown landmarks. All of these are branded with "The District" logo. It's here to stay.

Seasonal population

Anyone have a source for the figure of 120,000 seasonal population? I believe students are included in the census numbers. Adam 08:12, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm deleting this since I can't find anything to support it elsewhere. Adam 03:06, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
I grew up there and that is the number I had always heard. Students are counted as living whereever they actually live, (some times as residents of other states). They are not all counted as local population. Dalf | Talk 18:20, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
Looking at the Census info for columbia its pretty clear that they do not count students as residents (as subtracting people over 65, people under 18, and people with degrees from the total population gives a number less than the current enroolment at MU). However it is not clear what % of the students at MU are not local (I suspct the majority of them are local). The 120k number IS a number that just about anyone living there will give you but I have on more than one occasion tried to verify it with no success. I suspect the seasonal number is 100k but again I don't have a source so I won't put either number back into the article. Dalf | Talk 18:44, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
College students are counted, according to this discussion. Pertinent info, cited from Census forms: College students living away from home while attending college: Counted where they are living at college and ...the normal form (the one that would go to the other homes of college students) specifically instructs the person who fills out the form not to include students away at college. Polpo 17:44, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
It looks like the 120,000 figure is back. I am removing it as it's pure speculation and most likely false, due to the fact that both resident and nonresident college students are counted in the census. However, being a student at Mizzou in 2000, I can report that I did not receive a census form. In any case, I am updating the page with an estimated city population from [1] and MSA population from [2].

Polpo 20:05, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

As I outline above the census does NOT count all the students as simple math (show above can prove). However the 120k number (which will be given to you by all residents of the town) does need some sort of source. I think we should leave some mention of seasonal population form the students but not provide a number as the fact that there is some diffrence is easily sourced. Dalf | Talk 02:10, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Your changes are fine. Dalf | Talk 02:13, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean, but when I make the calculations you suggest above (total pop - under 18s - over 65s - degree holders) I get 37541, which is well in excess of the current enrollment numbers at Mizzou, even though you're double-subtracting degree holders over 65. I would also dispute the assertion that "all residents of the town" will give you the 120k figure, speaking as a lifelong resident of the town.  ;) Note also Polpo's link above to the official Census rules (though of course some undercount is always possible with Census numbers). Adam 00:04, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't know where people are looking but this is OFFICIAL- college students are counted as living where they are going to college, whether living on campus or in an apartment. Yes, this causes problems where their parents may list them on forms as living back home, it is a controversy of college students being counted twice while homeless are undercounted. The metropolitan area does NOT include Howard county, ONLY Boone. Please refer to the census bureau for more information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 148.78.243.25 (talk) 00:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

Yeah we aren't using the 120k figure though it may be true, seeing as how most college students don't seem to get a census form from my experience. Howard county, however is in the Columbia MSA, Its on the census website. Grey Wanderer | Talk 00:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

If a college student lives on campus in a dorm they would not recieve a form since it would be taken care of by the college itself. That could be part of why people think students are not counted. Very few people as a percentage actually get a form in the mail (in fact NO ONE with only a PO Box gets a form) most are done on a door-to-door basis. The census bureau counts students as living at where they live at college, this is a fact. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 148.78.243.24 (talk) 10:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

To add more confusion to the issue, I was a student living in the dorms during the 2000 census, and we did have a census worker come by. She made it clear that we should fill the forms out as living in Columbia, since we were going to school there (i.e., living there at the time). She also told us to make sure our parents didn't claim us on their forms, so as not to double count. For what it's worth . . .

Marijuana

The population generally supports progressive causes, examples of this being the recent decriminilization of marijuana and the extensive city recycling programs. This is in the article, but I never heard anything about this... Wouldn't something this major be well known? I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything before I take it down, 'cause it looks like a prank to me. Is it? 147.174.150.24 14:40, 10 April 2006 (UTC)Sean

It's for real. See the second and third paragraphs of this article, for example. The ordinance basically decriminalizes medical use of marijuana (at least at the municipal level) and says that anyone caught with less than 35 grams must be tried in municipal court, with a maximum fine of $250. Adam 03:35, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
(That's municipal rather than county(?)/state/federal, part of the idea being that state/federal convictions can result in students losing financial aid, whereas a conviction in municipal court will not -- at least that's how I understand it.) Adam 03:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay, then I'm going to edit the article slightly to reflect the fact that it isn't all out pot freedom. 147.174.150.24 05:58, 11 April 2006 (UTC)Sean

What are thoughts about removing the blurb on "decriminalization of cannabis"? I think there are better "progressive causes" to document than getting stoned.

Meh...I think its certainly notable even if its not flattering. Grey Wanderer | Talk 05:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

uhm, if anyone thinks we need more pictures of anything in Columbia (especially downtown, i do so love downtown), I can probably take some --Eel 22:05, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I really think we could use some good pictures of the city or MU. Anyone have any? 147.174.150.24 06:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)Sean
There are some pictures for ya. Grey Wanderer | Talk 10:21, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, but they've goofed up the formatting for the entire page. 12.216.240.130 13:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
They may have goofed it up on your screen, but depending on your browser, resolution, and screen size it will look different, making the pictures smaller is fine, but the pano really messes up things where you moved it. Grey Wanderer | Talk 05:27, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject

Is anyone interested in participating in a Wikiproject concerning Columbia? I believe we still have a great deal of information that we can expand upon, and getting good media is better with lots of people. Please reply if you are interested. Theprosperonight 14:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds great, your right there is alot more we can do. I'm in. Grey_Wanderer 23:02, 13 september 2006 (UTC)
Here's a start. We just need to get a good group of editors in. Wikipedia:WikiProject Columbia, Missouri Theprosperonight 10:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


Music Scene

We've got a progressive psychedelic heavy metal scene? I was not aware of this. In other words, I disagree. Even if I had no idea what Columbia was, I'd doubt that just because it's so specific. Then again, I guess I haven't listened to a LOT of those bands, so perhaps I'm not the most qualified to judge. Opinions? --Eel 01:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I would say we have progressive indie and alt scene. psychedelic...no so much. I plan at some point to remove the music scene section from the main article and give it its own as part of WikiProject Columbia, Missouri. Grey Wanderer 20:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree. I saw this and thought that it smacked of self-promotion. The indie scene seems to be the only thing even worth mentioning, since the only acts that tour or play industry showcases seems to be Bald Eagle and The Foundry Field Recordings. Mywhitedevil 06:25, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

In the "Popular Music Scene" article I think the "Other notable acts are:" part should either get it's own wikipedia article or have it's own section. I think the list is too long to be in the middle of the paragraph like that.

I went ahead and gave the other notable bands it's own category, I think it looks much better that way. Me5000 05:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this list accurately reflects the Columbia scene anymore. I can think of quite a few local bands that are just as notable as most of those on the list, but they aren't listed: Fare Thee Well (just won Clash of the Titans), Caulfield and the Magic (has a release on Hometone records), Umbros (several self-released albums), Barn Owl (self-released EP, plays a lot), Brunette, The Pale Family, The Stingrays (Hometone), John Henry & The Engine (Hometone), The Goldbugs (Hometone)... Plus Dadbot and Ellie Come Home are defunct now as far as I know, and I thought Warhammer48k moved to Chicago? 128.206.141.23 16:23, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The criteria for the list just seems to be if the band is local and known locally(I actually haven't heard of most of the bands on the list). So I think you can add any local bands you think are notable. I think it might be best to just get rid of the list, though, and only list bands that are known nationally. Me5000 17:29, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Famous People

Famous people need to be individuals who are known outside the local area. I've removed several people who would be unknown outside Columbia (e.g., Hindman, Gervino) and people who should logically appear on the Mizzou page (e.g., the coaches). 12.216.240.130 14:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Totally agree on the MU people, but Hindman is on the board of directors for several state-wide organizations, and perhaps the most well-known non-motorized transportation advocate in the state. Grey Wanderer | Talk 08:25, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I reinserted Hindman, and removed people like Brand Pitt, who only went to college in Columbia. These people are all listed on the MU alumni page. Grey Wanderer | Talk 08:28, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Economy

I noticed many citys have an Economy section which discusses the major businesses in the town and may include a list of major employers. The Columbia page mentions some employers here and there, but there is no section for this. Anyone think such a section would be worthwhile? HornColumbia 05:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It could be. Many cities do have such a section. The page could mention that if you have a good job in Columbia you are likely:

a) in medicine b) in insurance c) in education d) a lawyer

The University of Missouri is probably the major employer with its campus and hospitals (it owns University Hospital, Ellis Fischel, Columbia Regional Hospital, Rusk Rehab Center). Then there is State Farm and Shelter Insurance also among the city's big employers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.167.246.147 (talk • contribs)

Yeah, it would certainly be worth doing. Grey Wanderer | Talk 05:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Video Games

Should these be mentioned: http://blogs.columbiatribune.com/gameover/ and http://www.shortattentiongamer.com/? They are both based in Columbia and I think they both have a lot of fans. I thought video game things like this might be a growing thing in Columbia. Me5000 05:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe Slackers deserves a mention too? I wrote up articles for all three, I'm just waiting for some input, since it might be considered advertising. Me5000 17:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd say go for slackers its a decent sized midwest franchise that was founded in Columbia, but don't do the blogs as that would probably be considered advertising and spam. Grey Wanderer | Talk 18:19, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Game Over isn't just a blog it's a weekly column, and Short Attention Gamer is a podcast and forum. Just to be clear I was proposing they be added to the Columbia article not creating separate articles for them. Me5000 18:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Shakespeare's

"The song "Whiskey Bottle," by Uncle Tupelo, is rumored to be about the city of Columbia, as it makes specific reference to a sign which used be displayed on a Columbia tackle shop sign which read "Liquor, Guns, and Ammo." The sign is now displayed at the downtown location of the world-famous Shakespeare's."

This is in the "Popular Music Scene" section, I bolded the important part. Is Shakespeare's really world-famous? I love their pizza and it's pretty well-known in Missouri, but as far as I know outside of Missouri nobody has really heard of it. Me5000 17:41, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Population accuracies

It says the population is 96,700 as of 2007 with this page [3] as a source, but I can't find anything about the population there. There is this page for the population as of 2006 [4]. Then it says the Metropolitan Statistical Area is 153,283 with this as a source [5], but that seems to be from 2005. With the sentence worded the way it is I think it would be assumed both are for 2007. I found statistics for MSA as of 2006 here [6]. Me5000 18:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I guess I didn't really explain why I put this on the talk page. I did a search and 2006 was the most recent population statistics I could find for the city and the MSA. Unless someone has a 2007 source for either I'm going to change it to as of 2006. Me5000 23:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that, the 96,700 figure is from an old estimate and a source that no longer exist, I forgot to change it in the lead paragraph when I changed it in the infobox. Grey Wanderer | Talk 18:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Radio

I saw the radio section got deleted because of all the external links, most of these stations have pages on wikipedia we just need to find them. Grey Wanderer | Talk 18:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I restored the radio stations on wikipedia (or at least the ones I could find). Here are the ones I couldn't find on wikipedia that were on the list: KBIA, BUZZ, BXR, KOQL (q106.1), KATI, KCLR, KCMQ, KWOS, KSSZ. Me5000 22:18, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Main photo

I'm thinking that we should use something different than a photo of Jesse Hall and the Columns for the top photo on this article. I'm having a hard time thinking of a place or image that symbolizes Columbia to me, though. Any ideas? Polpo 00:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Image:CoMoflowers.jpg, if it had a different composition, is in the vein I'm looking for. That image in particular suffers in that it's not an illustrative shot, which is what we need, but rather an artistic one. Polpo 00:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I kinda agree, what we really need is a 'skyline' shot from the east that shows the tiger hotel, jesse hall, memorial union, and paquin tower. Problem is I don't know where we would get one thats not copyrighted. Grey Wanderer | Talk 18:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I always thought an aerial picture would be nice, but there is no way of getting one without flying in a helicopter. If someone had a good picture of downtown, that might work. Me5000 18:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Columbia skyline

I added a skyline picture, tell me what you think! I uploaded 3 versions, and of the 3 I found this one to be the best.

Here are all of the pictures I uploaded:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CoMoSkyline.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CoMoSkyline2.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CoMoSkyline3.jpg Me5000 00:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I could upload some unedited versions too and let someone else crop them if these don't work. Me5000 00:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)