Talk:Collective Soul

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Superscript text==Ridiculous POV== I had no choice as an editor but to remove the most heinous POV drivel from the lead paragraph, but the entire article is peppered with the same fan-drool. I don't have time to go through and find neutral ways to paraphrase this article (and I suspect the article would be about 1/3 as long if it were properly done) but maybe someone who has the time and expertise could do a little more than I did? ThanksDrewson99 (talk) 03:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Completely agree. Phrases such as "Collective Soul exploded out of their hometown of Stockbridge, Georgia onto the national consciousness", "and more than lived up to the promise of the debut, ", "Collective Soul’s chart-topping streak continued:" and "The album debuted at a respectable #66 on the Billboard 200." all smack heavily of an ardent fan writing this.

Seriously needs cleanup and all POV removed.--Spoco2 (talk) 02:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

i agree i mean i love collective soul but this page makes them seem like they were huge after 1997 there popularity droped after 1997 like most of the real deal post grunge bands who came out in the early and mid 90's ,i mean with the teen pop explosion of the late 1990's nobody wanted to here real alternative rock,im not counting the fake post grunge bands like match box twenty and third eye blind--Wikiscribe (talk) 22:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know too much about Collective Soul but I do like them. Like Drewson I was shocked at how badly this article was written; I spent about 10 minutes cleaning up the more egregious examples of bad POV from the article, though the whole article probably needs to be rewritten, since everything about it is pretty outrageous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fingolfin 14 (talk • contribs) 19:18, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

    • super uber praising. Hahaha. But CS is one of the best bands of all time, though indeed, their fame dropped starting 1999.

Fleurbutterfly 21:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Clean Up

Considering that this already has a comprehensive list of singles produced by the band, I think it's redundant to make the bulk of the article about what position each single debuted at on some billboard chart. Personally, I think the article should focus more on the history and sound of the band.

Agreed. I'll try and find time to do some work on the page. Beatdown 21:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I did a major clean up of the 1993-2001 Atlantic Records section. I removed most of the info about singles because it is contained in the info box at the bottom of the article. Still some work to be done on the whole article, but things are looking better. Beatdown 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of band name?

I've read that the band got the name "Collective Soul" from Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead? Can anyone confirm?

I've read that, also, but unfortunately I can't recall where. Amina skywalker 03:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subjective Information Removed

The line, "They became one of the most successful bands for over a decade. Consistently among the most-played on radio stations and TV during the 1990s," has been removed for its irrelevance, inacuracy and highly subjective nature.


    • Response**:

What are you talking about? Do you have any knowledge about the bands success? The statement is true.

I have also read that this statement is true, atleast of the most-played radio content.

    • Yeah. True and correct. Do your assignment and research. Their fame even reached surprisingly, rural areas back in 90's. And i mean, mountains, cows, forests... You know what i mean. Fleurbutterfly 21:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Performance in South Africa

They recently performed in South Africa as part of the Coca-Colab Massive Mix. Is it worth adding? Laurie


[edit] Confirmation and Review

Yes, the name came from Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead.

I saw them twice in '94-'95, once when they toured with Aerosmith and again when they opened for Van Halen. They blew Van Halen right off the stage. Since then, every time I've seen Collective Soul, they've been headliners. Bobbaxter

[edit] El Music Group Section

Please provide references for statements made in this section. Most are subjective.

Let me change it to:

As lead singer Ed Roland confirmed, working with The Atlanta Youth Symphony Orchestra was one of Collective Soul's most memorable experiences and the product of a baby being nurtured to maturation.

^ Please site your source for this. ^ "I do think an editor ought to be able to spell 'cite' "

"The DVD ended up selling quite well and the reviews for it were very positive from all over the music industry."

"Joel Kosche is receiving positive attention from... critics as being a proficient guitar player."

If you are going to write that CDs and DVDs have sold well, back it up. All these things might be true but please provide objective evidence. Remember, the object is to sound like a historian, not like a fan-boy.

Subjective elements removed from El Music Group section as well as clean up of some grammatical errors.

___

"Collective Soul is known for attracting many listeners with there catchy brand of rock. Many hard core fans of the group became such after only a few hours of listening (this quick form of attraction to the band is often referred to as a "Mess")"

Anything to back this up? Please sight your sources for this. How do we know how long people listened before they became fans? What is a "hard core fan?" Site your sources for the term "Mess." Explain why this term is used or delete it.

[edit] Major Label Years

The "major label years" is just a mess.

"They even landed a dream gig, warming up for rock superstars Aerosmith." Was this their dream gig or the author's dream gig? If this was their dream gig, tell us why. Otherwise, it's not worth including.

"It was certified triple-platinum in 1996 and spent an incredible 76 weeks on the Billboard 200, making it a blockbuster success." A blockbuster success? You don't work for the record label do you? Come now, state the facts and check your bias at the door.

"They hit a supreme high with their radio success, few rock bands have this much success with rock singles." Tell the readers why this radio success is important and how it was obtained. Or simply omit this information.

"Many people said they did not think that the band would be around for long." This sounds pretty shady. Who said this? Your friend Billy? State who said it or don't include it.

"Critics and experts did not favor this album as much as the fans." Again, elaborate or don't include it.

"However, everyone knows these bands have their own unique qualities. Critics questioned their choice of "image" and were saying that Collective Soul had become a "gimmicky pop-rock band". This was rather untrue, they still played their instruments with skill, despite the technological advances." If everyone knew this, there would be no need for wikipedia aricles about bands. Who were the critics and why do we care? Who's to say that they played with skill?

Basically, just clean up the bias and posr your sources. This seems highly opinionated. Opinion is fine, in moderation. I just don't like reading about Joe Shmoe's take on the band. I like to read what the band did(albums, tours, etc.), who is in the band(bios, controversey, dynamics), and finally the music itself(sound, style, influences).

I tend to agree with most of what you have said (whomever you are), and have embarked on a re-write this afternoon. In the future, may I recommend that you be bold in updating pages. Wikipedia is a community effort, and thrives on the community's input/work. JPG-GR 19:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree. It reads just like a VH1 special. --Deuxsonic (talk) 21:23, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is It Guilt or a Separate Issue?

The last two sentences of the introduction read:

Some have called Collective Soul a Christian rock band, a styling the band has repeatedly denied. They do, however, admit that their lyrics are often spiritual in nature.

Should the latter line read "admit" or "acknowledge"? "Spiritual" does not necessarily equate to "Christian". Even the band's name is more eastern in religious philosophy than Christian. Additionally, the swearing found in the songs "Smashing Young Man", "Vent" and "Burn" somewhat closes the door on the "Christian Rock" styling. Can a music group be spiritual and non-Christian? -Eccl.7.12 15:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

"acknowledge" is a better word. David Bergan 23:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Internet rumors....

I've read that Cho Seung-hui's favorite band was Collective Soul. Can anybody get a link to confirm this? -S h a r k f a c e 2 1 7 05:37, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

  • The NY Times published an article with more of his background and they say a roommate confirms he listened to Shine alot. Pgrote 01:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Collectivesoulyouth.jpg

Image:Collectivesoulyouth.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Collectivesouldosage.jpg

Image:Collectivesouldosage.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Collectivesoulblender.jpg

Image:Collectivesoulblender.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Collectivesoul7evenyearitch.jpg

Image:Collectivesoul7evenyearitch.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tagged as NPOV / Advertising

Folks, I have tagged this article as needing to be rewritten to a NPOV for its tone which is close to "advertising". Examples: the article says the band "exploded" in popularity, and that its manager was "greedy, deceitful". Those are not encyclopedic terms and are not substantiated in the article. Clearly somebody's shaded point of view, and not footnoted. -- hadley 23:57, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Haha, I slapped it on their earlier too, but mainly because of the first paragraph - 211.30.231.112 23:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)(ZEROpumpkins)
The first paragraph is VERY "POV". Proxy User (talk) 20:21, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On YouTube?

Is Collective Soul on YouTube? http://www.youtube.com/user/collectivesoul Could someone verify this? -Yancyfry 03:56, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

This article needs some work. The first paragraph is especially in need of work. Come on folks, this isn't a "fan site". A decent article can be written without sounding like the band's PR agent. Proxy User (talk) 20:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Most of the images on the page were clearly copyvios even though someone tagged them with a GFDL/CC license. I'm going to go ahead and remove them from the page. Not to mention that they were in very non-standard boxes... 66.93.12.46 (talk) 00:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)