Talk:Clutch (sports)

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[edit] Article neglects to mention one little thing

The article tries to refute the idea of clutch hitting by citing several examples of where the statistics of traditionally "clutch" athletes are nearly identical between the regular season and the post season. This is based on the obviously flawed premise that it's equally difficult to bat .320 or shoot 35% from beyond the 3 whether you're in the regular season or the post season. Obviously, by virtue of the fact that it's the post season, the competition will be far tougher than on average during the regular season. If you look at it in that light, the fact that Jeter batted essentially the same for 162 games against average opponents as he did against far better opponents in the playoffs is a strong indication that the phenomenon in question does exist.160.39.213.109 (talk) 12:42, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Nomination for deletion

Yep, this is pretty much why I hate Wikipedia... - Goo Paine 21:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Worldwide scope

I know this article only talks about North American sports, but I wonder if anyone outside North America uses the word "clutch"? If not, the article cannot be faulted for a limited geographic scope and the corresponding tags should be removed. Because the article as written even says that the term applies only to American sports, I am going to remove the worldwide tag, but please restore it if there is reason to believe the word "clutch" has a wider usage and athletes from other regions should be added.

Can anyone speak to this? 68.175.61.17 00:45, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] on Crack?

Wheres Mike Bibby?


[edit] origin?

Does anyone know the origin of the expression? Why people that perform well under pressure started being called "clutch"?

I don't know, but I am uncomfortable speculating that it came from the engine definition without outside evidence. --Beaker342 22:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I did do some research and the engine thing came from an information posted in the "urban dictionary" website. Since it makes some sense I think that it is good enough for a start, and if it is incorrect whoever knows the correct origin can correct the post. However, striking it out seems to be unproductive.

Urban dictionary is not a reliable source. Like wikipedia, it is written by users, so I'm putting a fact tag on it. If there are no reliable sources, it needs to go. We can't put information in just because it sounds right. --Beaker342 14:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, lets just give it some time and see if someone else contributes.

One week should be plenty of time to find a reliable source. My own searches on google and lexisnexis haven't turned up anything of use. If no reliable source can be found it needs to go. I'll turn your attention to WP:V: "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article...Any edit lacking a source may be removed, but editors may object if you remove material without giving them a chance to provide references. If you want to request a source for an unsourced statement, consider moving it to the talk page." --Beaker342 18:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Profiles?

The "profiles" section of the page attracts a lot of fanboys who just add their favorite player to the list and leave. As such, the section has grown into a huge list of supposedly clutch players, many of whom are still relatively young, with very little or no reason given for their "clutchness" and never ever a corroberating source. Thus, we learn that Vinatieri is the "greatest clutch kicker ever," but we have no idea where the quote comes from. The section needs serious work. --Beaker342 02:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Original research and removal of "Poor Clutch Athletes"

Most of this article is original research, and where actual sources are mentioned they are not cited properly. I removed the "Poor Clutch Athletes" section for a couple reasons:

  • Like the rest of the article, it's all OR and didn't even include indirect references;
  • It's unsourced negative information about living people (see WP:BLP). While the rest of the article should sourced, it's not as controversial to praise an individual, while the purpose of this article is to disparage those included.
  • Lastly, it would seem to be inherently out-of-place in the "clutch" article, as there already exists an article about "choking" which is the opposite of clutch performance. Leebo T/C 18:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Worldwide view

So it seems you have to have a penis to be a clutch athlete? Anchoress 04:57, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Feel free to update the article so as to eliminate that skew.160.39.213.109 (talk) 12:44, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, but I don't know enough about the topic to do so. Luckily, these talkpages exist to discuss improvements! Anchoress (talk) 01:39, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] False claim

Cristiano Ronaldo, although a great athlete and player, is a very bad player in clutch situation, proof of this claim is his performance during the 2006 World Cup. I really do not understand how he can be present in a list like this. IamTheLight 11:46, 13 November 2007 (CET)

Same with Steven Gerrard. With Zidane... he has had memorable performances for better or worse. He had plenty of poor big matches early in his career, including two major fuckups in World Cups (red cards in 1998 and 2006)... at the same time he has had poor league performances that have been overlooked (like at Juve in 98-99). Peoplesunionpro (talk) 19:38, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] batting average

is this really a proper way to find out how 'clutch' a player is? The article seems to suggest that it's just as easy to hit in the playoffs in MLB as the regular season. What about the fact of playing more difficult teams, with better prepared and motivated pitchers, in more hostile environments? Peoplesunionpro (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:39, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lebron James

I'm sorry, but Lebron James does not belong in the same line as Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Larry Bird etc. While he has had some really clutch moment (the game against Pistons), he has also had several choking moments. He's not even retired yet. I think therefore it is fair to remove him from the article as he has yet to prove consistently of his clutch abilities. Big Wang (talk) 05:07, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how to sign my comment - but before the injuries in '05 and beyond, Tracy McGrady was one of the most clutch players in the league. His stats were elevated in every single playoff series he had ever played in till that point. He also holds what could possibly be the most clutch game in the history of sports; 13 points in the final 35 seconds against the San Antonio Spurs (the best team in the league) including the game winner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.136.110.194 (talk) 23:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)