Talk:Clothed female, naked male
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This article was nominated for deletion on 4/8/2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
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[edit] Opening remarks
CFNM is becoming increasing popular. For many years men have been watching naked women, and watching naked women dance, and now women are getting their own back. CFNM takes place in places of entertainment. Generally it is a 'women only' event, also known as a hen party, women's night, ladies only or bachelorette party. Of course, not all such gatherings involve CFNM, but an increasing number do. At CFNM shows the women relax and decide the pace and tone of the show. They are popular because there is no commitment or on-going relationship with the men. It is a 'one-off event' and the girls/women perhaps have their fantasies fulfilled without the problems of having a secret affair. The show consists of several acts, where the men perform to set music. They perform various routines and acts, solo or in groups, sometimes involving audience partipation of some kind, to the embarrasment of the willing 'victim(s)' and the delight of the spectators. There is a fun/party atmosphere and alcoholic drinks are usually available for the audience.
Obviously to facilitate this phenomenon more men are taking up stripping for women. The British film "The Full Monty" exemplifies the basic concept. However, the film is based on the British attitude to nudity and interactive/personal contact, and may not not typical of CFNM parties generally in the U.K. or elsewhere.
In most European countries, and certain states of the USA, attitudes are more open, as indeed they are in Australia. In some of these countries, notably Spain and the Netherlands, it is more common for CFNM to take place in a mixed-sex club environment, whereas elsewhere only females attend.--217.205.241.16 16:33, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Paraphilia?
The main articles defines CFNM as a form of paraphilia, but in the list of known 'paraphilias' CFNM is not included. i.e. the referenced article does not cite CFNM as being a particular form of paraphilia. Therefore I think the lead sentence of the main article 'CFNM' is incorrect and should be edited to exclude the cross-reference to paraphilia. Who agrees? --213.1.15.127 00:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
well it can fall into different categories, depending on exact context. it can be voyeurism, or masochism, and (even though i wouldn't and it seems harsh) sadism. i don't know if it is always a paraphilia... if the man/men and woman/women consent and are aware, and there isn't humiliation, then i don't think it is a paraphilia. 142.165.59.39 09:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fiction / Fantasy
It's also important to mention, that a most popular CFNM web site, PartyHardcore (purposefully withholding the link), which depicts a Prague female-only male strip club setting with various sexual activities between the female patrons and the dancers, is a staged event, and not a documentary of parties "getting out of control." The risk of pregnancy and sexually-transmitted infections obviously precludes this sort of activity in a public and liscensed setting. But, for some, it's fun to wonder. Isn't that the point of fantasy? Colby Peterson 02:30, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
- how do they stage the event, are they paying the girls to be there? 125.236.134.185 18:23, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
They are paying some of the girls to be there. It's usually the ones who immediately start giving the male dancers oral sex or having sex with them on stage. The idea is that they give a good show and encourage the rest of the ladies in the audience to follow.
[edit] Why straight men are attracted to CFNM
Despite the description in the article, as a straight male fan of CFNM, another reason straight men are interested in this form of pornography is because otherwise (seemingly) normal women are involved in sexual acts that they would not normally do. They are not pornstars. They still have reactions that a desensitized pornstar would not. They are of different ages and levels of beauty. The fantasy is greatly enhanced by this notion of realism.
Straight men are also attracted to CFNM as Entertainment because, in their imaginations, they are able to put themselves in the position of the male performers receiving female attention, and pleasuring the female audience. --217.205.245.97 16:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the most fans of CFNM are males. It's a own form of S/M. Instead of Bondage or Spanking etc., the dominance is expressed by the expossion of the males to the females.
i am more confused about why gay men would be attracted to it. especially if we are refering to being involved in an actual cfnm encounter, and not just looking at cfnm pornography. why would a gay man want to be naked infront of clothed women? i myself am a straight man into cfnm, but only in senarios without my consent, for the humiliation. i have not ever really had a cfnm encounter, and one is unlikely since i am only into it when i don't consent, and therefor i do not seek them out. 142.165.59.39 09:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Needs more cites
Although this is certainly a notable pornographic sub-genre, there seem to be few references to it from mainstream sources. Can anyone provide a cite for a discussion of this from outside of the world of pornographic pay-sites? -- Arthur Frayn 12:51, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Web Sites
Several successful web sites are dedicated to depictions of (drunken?) female spectators playing with the male performers' genitals, and/or engaging in fellatio, or sexual intercourse with them. (usually under the label of a "girls' night out", "hen night" "bachelorette party" etc)
Although Wikipedia is uncensored, I think it would be inappropriate to list the pornograhic web sites that feature CFNM.--213.1.15.127 00:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree that it would be inappropriate to list/link pornographic sites in Wikipedia, especially considering the fact that children access this database. --217.205.245.97 16:27, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The 'audience':professionals, amateurs or genuine club patrons?
Do they use models/actors or are all the girls amateurs? 125.236.134.185 18:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
It depends on the situation. Some shows are in clubs, pubs and social halls where the event is staged, and all the women are just there to have a good time, most watching and some, the more daring, participating. In other shows, whilst most in the audience are the general public, there may also be a few professional female models/performers there who are happy to be interactive with the male strippers. Just watching such 'hands on' audience+stripper activity generally encourages others to loose their inhibitions and to participate also. --217.205.241.139 19:31, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merge
merge to stripper? i dont see the correlation. merge to fetish, would be appropriate. google shows a grip of hits on this term. Explanation Is this a valid ref for the idea of this subject? the_undertow talk 23:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
That is not the issue. "realness" is not a quality for inclusion in wikipedia, but attribution to published sources is. I think it would suit that policy best if this entire article was blanked and redirected to male stripper or pornography, unless the material here can be attributed to published source. Lotusduck 19:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
i strongly disagree with duck 142.165.59.39 19:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Policy
Wikipedia is not a consensus. If the article content fails to comply with policy it will be removed. Lotusduck 16:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
POLICY? In way way does (did) the (previous)article content fail to comply with Wikipedia policy? --217.205.241.232 14:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Article removed?
ALTHOUGH the article on CFNM may have been nominated for deletion, and although there was 'no consensus', nevertheless the article has been totally removed! Explanation please! --217.205.244.227 10:21, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- it was simply redirected. there is no doubt that this fetish exists. unfortunatley, there are no good references to make this article stand on its own accord. the_undertow talk 10:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
cfnm is not a fetish... i believe fetishes are attractions to objects, and there is no object, i think you mean to say paraphilia. 142.165.59.39 09:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm. Although you say that the article has been redirected, in fact the article itself has been removed, yet the discussion page remains. So we have a discussion page, but we do not have the article to which it refers. However, perhaps more importantly, the original article, although after due discussion, there was no consensus as to its deletion, nevertheless has been effectively deleted! This deletion has been done unilaterally, without the authority of a consensus. I suggest that the article be re-instated to its original place in Wikipedia until such time as there is a significant consensus for its removal. --217.205.245.53 15:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- Although the old stub article has been replaced with a REDIRECT line, you can still see the previous content via its history page. If anyone has sufficient content and reliable sources to justify a separate article, they can type it in to replace the redirect. Fayenatic london (talk) 16:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Further, wikiinfo does not require sources. If you want to do original research, you can simply go there.Lotusduck 02:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
DOES THIS MEAN that Wikipedia articles must have sufficient content and sources? If so, many Wikipedia articles fail this criteria. Will you be systematically removing all of them in due course?--217.205.241.232 14:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
