Talk:Closer (film)

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"Throughout the film the only character who stays pure and honest is Alice; this is played as irony as she is the "ditsy" and "less stable" of the bunch." Excuse me? She lied about her name for years. I think that's inexcusable. -65.35.200.40 16:37, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don´t think that Larry can be labled "dishonest". (Remember that, just as Alice had broken up with Dan when she had the one-night stand with Larry, Larry had also broken up with Anna) So I disagree with the statement that Alice is the only character who stays pure and honest.

Although Dan´s mistakes and faults are clearly the central problem in the relationships, I also don´t think that Alice can be easily excused for using a false name for four years. Thus, while I regard Dan as the "guilty party", together with Anna (who also cheats), Alice is not clean. Her lie regarding her name show a lack of trust and of commitment that is inexcusable in a four year relationship. (ABsto , August 10th, 2005.)

This overview of the film shouldn't even be on the page. This is a encylopedia, not a movie site --Matt von Furrie 21:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

The most important aspect of this movie must be, as in the (paraphrazed) words of the director, the nature of how we tend to remember our past relationships; how we tend to remember the beginnings and the endings, and not so much the everyday stuff that goes on in between. This is the reason for the chronological lapses in the movie. And seen in this light I think it is unfair to judge the characters too harshly. (Who knows who's memory we are watching? And who knows how accurate it is? Is it a compound of four people's memories? The closing scenes seem to suggest that, as we see the four characters dream away more or less as alone as they were before the opening scene). Yes there are several painful scenes in the film, (as in life). But we are purposely denied knowing anything about what good might have existed inbetween them and their counterparts: The in hindsight possibly overly romanticised first meetings. Not acknowledging this the director's and writer's intention will lead the viewer to dismiss the characters as unrealistically callous and cruel. (This also offers an explanation to the fixation around sex and lust throughout the film, as sex and lust often are "in focus" at the beginning and the end of relationships). And, finally, about the fake name lie... Yes four years is a very long time for a lie that enormous. But it is an equally long time for a spouse not to be interested enough to discover it. As unfathomable as it is, Alice's lie is nothing but a survival technique, albeit a slightly grotesque one. She comes from a history of hardships, she is the most roughed up of the four characters, and she recognizes a shifty guy when she sees one. Yet she seems to be the least emotionally disturbed of the quartet. Her love is true and unselfish, not narcissistic like in the other three, and she invests all she has into it for as long as it is remotely feasible. But when it becomes obvious that Dan is never going to change, that he is never going to love her as she loves him, that in the end he is more interested in if she slept with someone else after he left her than in getting close enough to discover the true "plain Jane Jones", she is able to catapult herself out of the situation armed with the fake name lie: He will never find her again, even if he spends the rest of his life trying. Then again, I could be wrong, and she is just as terrified of closeness as the others, and it simply comes to an abrupt end when Dan presses her for the Truth. But my point is, I think it is moot to stress the moral strength or weakness of one character over another. That's not what the film is about. Hackapump 19:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] The name

Most people, including myself, tend to assume that the title is the comparative form of the adjective "close", and so is pronounced /'kləʊsə/. However, I have seen an interview in which Natalie Hershlag pronounces it as though it were an agent noun derived from the verb "to close". That's /'kləʊzə/

Template:Spoiler

In other words, it appears that it doesn't mean "nearer", but "finisher". I presume that this refers to the slap at the end which provides Jane and Dan with closure. Any thoughts? — Helpful Dave 10:24, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Summary Inaccuracy

I disagree with part of the summary of the film. I do not beleive that Alice sleeps with Larry. She is rather clear in her denials to him during the stripping scene. There is no reason to beleive the event occured except for Larry's own claim to Dan. However, we have every reason to beleive that Larry is lying because he admits in the same conversation that he is being spiteful. The very reason that Alice is so upset by Dan's accusations in their final scene together is that the charge is false. Why else would Alice leave Dan? Alice is the only character who believes in the power of an individual to resist temptation. She said to Dan, "As if you had no choice? There’s a moment. There’s always a moment. I can do this. I can give in to this or I can resist.” Anyone agree with me?

In the end Alice leaves Dan because she says "I can't lie and I can't tell the truth so it's over". Also Dan says that he already knew and she asks why he would push her to answer if he already knew the truth. As further proof that the affair did in fact happen Alice describes the encounter even going so far as to admitting having orgasmed. Greenbird 06:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, don't forget Larry's devastating punctuation after claiming he slept with Alice: "Buster...". He spitefully calls Dan by the nickname Dan and Alice affectionately used for eachother when alone, so as to convince Dan that he did in fact not only sleep with her, but also that he has come close enough to her for her to spill out her guts for him. This is also supported by Larry's line from the same scene: "She loves you, beyond comprehension". Nothing in the strip scene suggests anything that would make Larry say that; it is obviously a conclusion he has come to after spending a very long night with Alice. And both being alone and deserted by their respective lovers, what in that moment would suggest they resist eachother? Hackapump 20:47, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

No, I agree with the first paragraph, Alice did not sleep with Larry. Dan's persistent suggestion that she was lying to him by refusing to accept her truth was very clearly the reason she stopped loving him so suddenly. After that point, she lies by saying that she had slept with Larry just to tell Dan what he wanted to hear. When Dan says that he knew anyway as Larry had told him, this only makes it worse, as Alice realises Larry had lied to Dan just to engineer this very situation, knowing Dan would choose his version over hers. And contrary to what Greenbird quotes, Alice actually says "I don't wanna lie, I can't tell the truth, so it's over." A subtle but yet significant difference, hinting that although she may not want to lie, her attempt at truth has already been rejected.

I am surprised so many people have missed this interpretation, as it is the only one that gives a proper reason for Alice's sudden change of heart. If she had indeed slept with Larry, then Dan would only have been trying to get at the truth, which is a fairly forgivable thing. But since she had not slept with Larry, Dan's refusal to accept this as the truth was far more damning of him, his trust for her, and thus any future for their relationship. [kev 28 March 2007]

That's a very interesting interpretation that sort of explains a part of the movie that didn't quite fit together for me. Thanks for offering it - some very engaging insights. The thing with Closer is that it is open to so much interpretation - we often find ourselves speculating about feelings and motives of the characters and how they interrelate with one another. [perilune 09 June 2007]

[edit] Motifs/Symbols/Themes and whatnot

Something that borders on original research, but could be included if anyone can find a review or criticism that includes these. Various motifs etc. recur throughout the film, such as St. Paul's Cathedral (present in the background of a number of shots), giving up smoking (or not), fish (most - all? - of the introductory conversations between characters involve a discussion of fish, and the aquarium is a common thread)... and you might be able to spot more.

See this link for a brief reference to two of these:

[1]

[edit] Alice's honesty

I have removed the section regarding speculation about the honesty of the various characters. It read too much like an essay or original research. If it can be cleaned up, feel free to replace it. Isopropyl 01:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Worst single phrase I have read on wikipedia

"This is modern tragedic version of Mozart's opera Così fan tutte, so film uses that music and they go to operahouse to see this."

That was just pathetic.

Yet you didn't change it. 68.100.203.44 04:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Natalie Portman Clive Owen Closer.jpg

Image:Natalie Portman Clive Owen Closer.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 17:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dan

Jude Law's character (I think he's called Dan) seems to have a fixation with the death of his mother. This is hinted at by the fact that he still cuts the crusts of his sandwiches and also his profession, he writes obituaries. Both relatively innocent but then there's the fact that he still wakes up in the middle of the night crying for his mother and spends a large portion of the film bemoaning her death. This would explain his lack of fidelity. After all he has already been married at least once (to Ruth) when he meets Alice (Jane) if you remember and later leaves Alice (Jane) for Anne. Could it be he's trying to find a mother figure? Alice (Jane) does seem to look after him like a mother would her son and Anne seems quite motherly as well. Has anybody else noticed this or am I being over-analytic(al). --Jupiter Optimus Maximus (talk) 15:40, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Music by Steven Patrick Morrissey

This line in the box appears to be incorrect -~~