Talk:Closed source software

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[edit] Subtle but important distinction

It is important to distinguish closed source from proprietary software. The existing text of this topic would fit better under proprietary. The writer assumes closed source is primarily distributed in binary form and that the source is not available.

In looking at all the possible combinations of source availability and distribution methods, there is an important class of software that is best described as closed source.

There is nothing that precludes releasing source code under specific licensing terms. These terms could be restrict or encourage redistribution of the source. In fact, it is likely that distribution of source code instead of binary artifacts is the most efficient and profitable.

As a counter example is generative programming. Systems built with generative programming techniques may be written in languages for which no widely available compiler/interpreter exists. The source for these systems may be made available to users of the software to verify that the intent of the logic, within the context of the language, is correct. Such systems may not even use a language per se (e.g. natural language systems.)

In any case, the tone of the existing text is distinctly open source vs. proprietary and does not make some important distinctions.

I'll try to craft an alternate definition and post it for review.

[edit] Merging into proprietary software?

This article is quite small, and I'm not sure there's much more to say. If it was to be fleshed out, it would basically turn into a duplicate of proprietary software. How about merging it into the proprietary software article? --Gronky

I agree, it makes sense since the terms either mean the same thing or are very closely related. Haakon 16:11, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I do NOT agree. Closed source and proprietary software don't mean the same thing. There exists proprietary software which comes with source code. Even the proprietary software article mentions that! Rbarreira 00:39, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

True. However, closed source is a sub-class of proprietary software. --64.222.104.90 16:29, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

As said in more detail in the "Discussion" section below, this article is not about "proprietary software which comes with source code", so this merge proposal does not cover merging information about that topic, so there is no conflict. --Gronky 10:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge as the other article is better and people who want to know about proprietary software (by searching for closed source) don't care about—or at least don't want to go to a less comprehensive page because of—some alleged difference in the use of the terms. Remember WP:NOT a dictionary. Also article titles should be noun phrases (i.e.: closed source software). Even if usage is different, it is clear that most proprietary software is closed source. —Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _{talk contrib} 20:26, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Merge - per (my) proposal. Gronky 10:06, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't merge - I say NO. I'm completely against merging these two articles, as Closed Source and Proprietary Software are completely different. A program can be proprietary and open source at the same time! There's no relation! cb43569 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.237.180 (talk) 11:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

They cannot be different. "Closed source" was invented and popularised in 1998 specifically as a "replacement name"[1] for "proprietary software". The individual words that make up these terms have different meanings, but these two articles are about the terms of art, not about the individual words. They are the exact same thing, one is just a nickname for the other. Having two separate articles is just leading to confusion. --Gronky 12:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge since while 'open source' has a clear meaning in some circles, 'closed source' has never really been accepted with an agreed meaning (witness discussions here), while 'proprietary software' is unambiguous. If a category is wanted for 'not open source', that might as well be defined in the open source article rather than creating an article which is just a negation of another.--Ed Avis, 16 November 2007

Merge "Closed source" is slightly POV, in my humble opinion. Even though we're making an open-source encyclopedia, we still have to give proprietary/closed-source software the NPOV treatment it deserves. Lovelac7 22:36, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

I disagree about the merge. They are totally different and their articles should remain that way.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rarara77 (talk • contribs) 2008-08-13.

They are practically synonyms. It's important to note that these words are being used here as part of a term of art, not with their standard English meanings. In English, yes, "closed source" and "proprietary" have very different meanings, but here, both articles talk about software which is the opposite of free software (again, a term of art, meaning software which is free from restrictions that would prevent modification or sharing).

As well as being pointless duplication, by having two separate articles for two names for the same thing, Wikipedia is needlessly making it easier for people to reach the wrong conclusion that these are different things. Gronky 19:48, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree about the merge too. As said before "closed source is a sub-class of proprietary software". Closed source is different to propietary software the same way that open source is different to free software. You can give the sources of your program but not allow to modify or redistribute it (an open source propietary software). Example: Sun Microsystems' many Java classes were open but propietary. Merging the articles can be possible but remarking they aren't the same. Kokotero 10:29, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually that is incorrect. If you do not give permission to modify and redistribute, then it is not open source. "Open source" is a term of art, not an adjective-noun pair. Open source and free software are pretty much the name thing. "Open source" was created in 1998 as a replacement name for "free software" - the two names refer to the same thing. And "closed source" was created in the same way, it is just a new name for proprietary software.

Many people make the mistake of thinking that they are different things. Wikipedia is just making that mistake even easier by having two separate articles for two terms for the same thing. --Gronky 10:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I was using the obvious meaning of open source instead of the OSI definition. My opinion is that both meanings should be mantained, closed source as opposite of OSI's open source and closed source as opposite of open source's obvious meaning. My personal opinion is that OSI chose a worse name to replace a bad one (GNU at least has its "free as in free speech, not as in free beer"). If we decide to mantain both meanings we should not merge articles, else closed source should be a redirection. Kokotero 12:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Then we're not in conflict. Wikipedia breaks things down to topics rather than names, so there are two articles for "letter" - one for the written communication and another for the thing in an alphabet. For "open source" and "closed source", each can describe one topic if read literally and can describe another topic when read as a term of art. Wikipedia articles currently exist for the two topics referred to by the term of art meanings, but as far as I know there are no Wikipedia articles about the literal meanings. As a term of art, "closed source" and "proprietary software" are the same thing. The former was simply created 18 years later to refer to the latter.

So I agree with you in terms of not destroying the other meaning of "closed source", but this article isn't about that topic, so the proposed merge will not do what you object to. If there is an article about the topic referred to by the literal meaning of the words "closed source", or if someone makes that article in future, it will not be merged into the proprietary software article. Does that work for you? --Gronky 09:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with the merge. "closed source" does not necessarily refer to software. Hardware may also be considered "closed source", or any number of layers within hardware design. Only articles using specific term "closed source software" ought to be considered. 67.183.211.201 23:53, 11 September 2007 (UTC)Aud1073cH

I have renamed this page to 'closed source software' since the content is only about software. If wanted, there could be a more general page 'closed source' which would cover hardware, education, politics etc in the same manner as 'open source'. (Personally, I don't think that would make much sense, but it is possible.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ed Avis (talk • contribs) 12:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

"closed source" it is just a the same as proprietary software, so it should be merge66.201.161.244 19:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)barraza.ae