Talk:Close central rounded vowel

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A discussion on Swedish /ʉ/ has been moved to the Close front compressed vowel Talk page. kwami 20:30, 2005 August 20 (UTC)/kwami 07:40, 2005 September 12 (UTC)

Contents 1 Format problems 2 As allophone of English /u:/ 3 Cockney and Estuary English 4 Scottish English 5 The West

[edit] Format problems

This page has the same set of problems discussed at Talk:Close_front_rounded_vowel#Format_problems, and the same range of options for fixing them. --Trovatore 02:34, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] As allophone of English /u:/

I know there is a fronted allophone of /u:/ in certain English dialects (including my own RP-like), which I have previously described as [ʏ:] because that is the nearest vowel I'm (more or less) familiar with. Is there a reputable source citing this one (or another) as the correct description of this allophone? Hairy Dude 05:13, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Just noticed that You claims that the Estuary English pronunciation is /jʉ:/. Hairy Dude 18:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think the reference to English should be removed. A lot of the vowel pages contain references to English dialectal pronunciations of vowel sounds, and in particular sounds that are clearly not part of English phonology - [y,ʏ,ɨ,ʉ,ɘ,ɵ,ɜ] all have such a reference. I think this is rather misleading, and does a disservice to the understanding of both English phonology and phonology in general. The emphasis should be put on languages that distinguish these vowels phonemically - the reference to Paici for /ɜ,ɘ,ɨ/ is clearly a good example here - rather than weird regional allophones of vague central sounds in English that are half different every other time they're pronounced and diphtong all over the place anyways. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.81.136.8 (talk) 03:42, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Just because they aren't part of your dialect doesn't mean that they aren't "part of English phonology." As long as it's clear which dialect is being presented (which it is), there's no "disservice" at all. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 04:01, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cockney and Estuary English

This is a common (but not the only) realization of the "Goose Vowel" in these two dialects. So I will add them to the table. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 05:13, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah! Not sure about Estuary English (Estuary English doesn't say either way) so I removed it pending some sort of citation. But I sourced Cockney. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 07:44, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but you screwed up buddy. Cockney uses the close central rounded vowel in "boot", not book! I'm sure you knew that. Here's a "citation" for Estuary English. All four areas (cities?) in this study have this vowel as a possible realization in the word "goose". 208.104.45.20 (talk) 21:52, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I shall edit accordingly. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 23:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. That table is really being a bitch (excuse my French). 208.104.45.20 (talk) 05:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I know how you feel. Tables can get pretty complicated. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 06:13, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish English

Scottish English uses the close central rounded vowel in both "book" and "boot". I think we should add that to the table as well. 208.104.45.20 (talk) 09:17, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The West

I think the West should be added to the table as well, for words like "super". 208.104.45.20 (talk) 19:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

You got a source? — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 22:51, 20 January 2008 (UTC)