Talk:Clan Crawford

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I suppose I should be grateful that someone finally started this topic (again). I started this topic a few years ago and it was promptly deleted. I refused to participate in Wiki battles, so I didn't bother to return. I'll find my unofficial clan crest image and upload it, not that it means much without a chief, but it does give a sense of indentification and equal footing with other clans. BTW, this article is going to need a lot of work to bring it closer to real history. Chief 13:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the article was previously deleted because of a copyright violation. If you upload a badge make sure the image is not under copyright, and is licensed as a "free" image.--Celtus (talk) 09:47, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

If I had time to upload a badge it would have been my own artwork since I created it about 1998 in a much larger version from public domain heraldic clip art. However, since my work is professionally done it could not be distinguished from commercial artwork. BTW, the tartan example in the article is incorrect. The single white pinstripe is actually a double white pinstripe. A scan of the original Vestiarium design is maintained by the Clan Crawford Association and it has the double pinstripe just like the commercial tartan available today. Chief 14:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry "Chief", the crest image which you uploaded was a clear copyright violation. I think you are mistaken about the tartan too. The Crawford tartan (Image:Crawford tartan (Vestiarium Scoticum - plate).png) is the tartan which appears illustrated in the Vestiarium. The "double white pinstripe" tartan which i think you are referring to (Image:Crawford tartan (Vestiarium Scoticum - text).png) is not illustrated in the Vestiarium. It is actually derived from the text of the Vestiarium. If the Clan Crawford Association actually has a "scan of the original Vestiarium design" it can't be the "double white pinstripe" tartan you are thinking of.--Celtus (talk) 05:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, and just to make things as clear as possible. There are two Crawford tartans derived from the Vestiarium: the tartan which is the standard tartan today is derived from the text, the other is from the illustration. The (standard) tartan derived from the text calls for crimson, but the illustration shows scarlet. There are more than a few cases in the Vestiarium where the illustrations don't match up with their descriptions. But now, the part i'm not so sure about is the white stripes. I think i better try and double-check the thread counts and see if i've made a mistake with the white on Image:Crawford tartan (Vestiarium Scoticum - plate).png. Until now i didn't realise the crimson tartan was the current standard, so it should go in the article before the scarlet one. Especially if the scarlet one might have an error in it.--Celtus (talk) 04:20, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I would like to add the the Baronet of Kilbirnie is not as straight forward as one may think. The original baronetcy was created over 400 years ago for the Kilbirnie Cadet. In the 1700's the heiress married a Pollock and they adopted the name Crawford-Pollock. When the family refused to meet the terms of the Baronetcy by changing their name to Crawford simply because they wanted to inherit the Pollock estates with a similar inheritance clause, then a new Kilbirnie Baronetcy was created from descendants of the Auchenames line of the House of Crawford in 1781. This line came from the Previck and Thirdpart estates that separated from Auchenames about 600 years ago. The Baronetcy is currently held by Robert Crawford, 9th Baronet in this line. Chief 15:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)