Talk:Civil libertarianism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Does this actually need to be a separate article? Isn't a civil libertarian just someone who strongly supports civil liberties? That's how I usually hear the term used; for example, to describe members of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. --Delirium 06:53, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)
- I think it's broader than that. The terms have different connotations. I'm not sure there's a "civil liberty" to watch porn, but "civil libertarians" make a big deal out of it.Dave
I removed the sentence "Civil libertarians would also be likely to campaign against the death penalty and abortion regulation."
It didn't necessarily seem true. For instance, even civil libertarians support laws against murder, and if you see abortion as murder, then a law against it makes perfect sense. I don't think this statement is correct. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 15:14, 2004 Aug 4 (UTC)
- Similarly stating that civil libertarians are usually pro-drug use is disturbing. I'm sure I'm not. Wouter Lievens 21:49, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
- I had similar thoughts on the abortion thing. However, I think some mention should be made of abortion in the article, since regardless of wheter it should be or not (I don't think it should) it is often thought of as a civil liberties issue, and many civil libertiarians support abortion rights on those grounds. Some civil libertarians think of it as murder and oppose it on those grounds, but since that is a factual question about which people disagree it can both ways. The ACLU is a prominent supporter of abortion rights. Snowboardpunk 23:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Firstly, I would say that it is necessary to separate civil libertarians from libertarians or economic libertarians simply because they can have vastly different economic solutions. Since this is a political affiliation, the particular brand of economics endorsed is exceptionally important. As far as the defining civil libertarians goes, however, it is extremely difficult because they vary largely. While they all vehemently support the defense of civil liberties, they often differ largely (amongst themselves) on what is and isn't justified taxation and governing. Also, the term "pro drug use" is misleading. Just because a civil libertarian supports the RIGHT to use, does not mean they are "pro drug-use," and trying to persuade people to actively consume cocaine. --Spiritualspatula 06:01, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
This article is terrible in its current form. The first sentence is vague and utterly fails to define its terms. The second paragraph lacks all cohesion. There is no delineation of the actual political philosophy, nor is there any mention of the prominence of civil libertarian viewpoints in recent issues and debates. I am working on a rewrite. --Demflan 03:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
OK, that's all I can do tonight. I'd like to expand this article considerably, however, and add a section on organizations and individuals with civil libertarian viewpoints, a section on civil libertarianism in post-9/11 America, and a section on the history of civil libertarianism as something distinct from other forms of libertarianism. --Demflan 04:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposal to Merge
This article should be merged for two reasons: 1) It does not make a clear distinction between "civil libertarianism" and general "libertarianism". If such a distinction exists, it should be clarified. 2) If a distinction can be articulated, I suspect it does not warrant it's own page, but should instead be a subsection of libertarianism in general.
Thoughts? Queerudite 18:52, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Civil Libertarianism vs Libertarianism Distinction
Civil Libertarianism is not Libertarianism as I understand it. It is an incomplete ideology that tends to be comprised of political positions such as freedom of speech and press, and a peripheral interest in minority rights or 'equality'. Because Civil Libertarianism only addresses certain issues pertaining to liberty but not others, its proponents are incapable of, or unwilling to apply the principles of liberty to their ultimate conclusions as is found in Libertarianism. This often leads to contradicting positions on contemporary political issues such as television and internet censorship, or citizenship/immigration.
Libertarianism is a belief in non-aggression and freedom from force or coercion. Civil Libertarianism tends to deal with speech rights and equality in pursuit of afforementioned rights.
Sadly, I don't think that Civil Libertarianism has been well-defined, but it surely ought to stand as an independent topic.
This topic would be improved by amalgamating the positions of the American Civil Liberties Union and other self-ascribed 'Civil Libertarians'. The beliefs of the movement are in greater flux as opposed to Libertarianism. 64.30.62.72 03:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Civil Libertarianism vs ACLU
Support for the ACLU does not necessarily equate to Civil Libertarianism, as many may support the ACLU on one issue, but disagree with it on another, meaning they may not be Civil Libertarians in general, merely supporting the ACLU on a specific issue. Moreover, a Civil Libertarian can also disagree with aspects or policies of the ACLU. The ACLU is a political organization, whereas Civil Libertarianism is an ideology. Thus, I think this article should remain separte from both "Libertarianism" and "American Civil Liberties Union." 24.149.203.252
