Talk:Churchill tank

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.

Given the naming convention of British tanks, Covenanter, Cromwell, Crusader etc and the early stage in the war when Churchills reputation was yet to be confirmed, is it not more likely that the tank was named for the 1st Duke of Marlborough, John Churchill?

Most sources I've read indicate that it was named after the prime minister, likely as a morale thing. Have you any sources that say otherwise? Oberiko 12:53, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)


Well, there are no sources to back the other in the article either, and I presume it is unlikely to name a tank a living person, let alone the leader of the country at the time. Nikevs 23:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
What sources? I can't seem to find anything reliable. It's claimed on a lot of web pages, but that's probably just inference. I happen to agree that it's more likely the tank was named after the general, not the prime minister. But neither theory should be in the article without a reliable source. --Isaac R 00:20, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure I read something in one of Churchill's wartime memoirs, (either the second or the third) where he reprints the telegram he sent to the manufacturer thanking them for naming it after his illustrious ancestor. Also in Britain it's extremely unusual for things to named after any living person who isn't royalty. J.Rigger 18:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


The article lists the Tortoise heavy assault tank as design based on the Churchill. Is it so ? The two vehicles doesn't have much in common and sources about the Churchill (at least those I've read) don't mention the Tortoise... Bukvoed 09:13, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

The 2.74 meter height of the Chruchill is described as a "low silhouette" in this article, a claim I have never heard before for the Churchill. The Sherman is normally considered a very high tank at 2.8 meters. DMorpheus 16:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I would say the silhouette could be considered low relative to the vehicles overall length. Incidentally, the Churchill was indeed named after Winston, partly as a morla booster, partly in recognition of his involvement with the invention of the tank back in WWI. He was, after all, quite a famous man even before the first world war broke out... Getztashida 14:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Rewrite

I've redone the history section, I'll try and get the design section soon. Oberiko 03:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources to use


[edit] High Explosive or Shape Charged?

"Churchill AVRE (Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers) A Churchill III or IV equipped with the Petard, a 290 mm Spigot mortar, throwing the 40 pound (18 kg) "Flying dustbin" with its 28 pound high explosive warhead." Are you sure it is High Explosive? I thought it was shape charged (or Hollow Charged).

As far as I can tell it was ordinary HE, normally fired at *very* close range (100 meters or less). DMorpheus 16:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Was it an early HESH type?

Yes, it is an early HESH type - it's a non-shaped charge filled with a plastic explosive that spreads out over the target before being detonated by a base fuze - there's a cutaway-diagram of the Petard's projectile in Allied Secret Weapons - a Purnell's History of the World Wars Special - Phoebus - 1975 - (No ISBN)
Unlike a shaped-charge, the round is designed to cause damage (to concrete, in this case) by shock rather than by penetration.
The picture caption states that the round is a scaled-up version of the one used in the earlier Blacker Bombard. Ian Dunster 10:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Me myself

The following alleged quotation from Churchill has recently been removed without explanation by an anonymous IP: "This tank even has more flaws than me myself!" It's certainly difficult to believe that Churchill used the phrase "me myself". It sounds like the kind of English up with which he would not put. Is this just one of the many apocrophal Churchill lines, or can some more accurate version of it be sourced? Paul B 13:56, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Churchill did make such a reference at least once, during a long speech to the Commons after returning from American (Dec 41, I think). It's online somewhere, and I've been trying to find that again so we have a good quote to use. It's also rather different from the usual reported anecdote, which our previous unsourced quote seems to be a botched variant of. As you say, it doesn't sound right, and I'm glad someone removed it.
It wouldn't be amazing if Churchill made the joke more than once, as his verbal and written output was enormous, and of course anywhere he went all ears would turn to him, then repeat the latest witticisms to friends over tea - spawning variations and no doubt exaggerations. But for sourceable versions, I only know of that one reference so far.24.69.22.73 01:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Here's the speech. See paragraph 2/3 down, search for "A.22". http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1942/420702a.html
While amusing to read, I think that instance illuminates the Prime Minister's debate skill rather than a perception of the vehicle, and should not be included with this Wiki article. Let's wait for a souced version of the pithy remark usually quoted, and usually alleged to have been said during a physical examination of the new vehicles.24.69.22.73 02:52, 24 July 2007 (UTC)