Talk:Christopher Speer
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I quote from my discussion listed under Morris Davis: According to Wikipedia editor Geo Swann: Press reports have widely described Sergeant Speer as a "medic" in a way that I feel is highly misleading-- Speer had been in the Army for something like ten years. He did received paramedic training -- not uncommon in modern special forces units.”
SFC Christopher Speer was an 18D---that is; 18 series, with a designation of D, a SF Medical Sergeant. This cannot be disputed. How you can even begin to argue that this is a “misleading” description of Speer would be humorous if it wasn’t so blatantly offensive. By demonstrating a lack of understanding for basic military training and structure you prove an inept at author for any of these articles related to Speer’s combat death. The course to become a medic in the SF is approximately 46 weeks, a lengthy school by Army standards. Special Forces teams work in squads with varying specialties. So SFC Speer does have the apparently unfathomable capacity to be a medic and a squad leader, extensive combat training and specialized training is what makes the SF both a multifaceted and elite fighting force. Speer died clearing a building thought to contain dead of wounded enemy forces, which he ironically would have then treated and evacuated. According to Layne Morris, another soldier wounded during the attack: “(Omar Khadr's)lucky we had a second doctor there. After Omar had killed our first medic, the second one saved his life.” [3} Speer was fatally wounded before he was able to complete his mission that day.
Finally, Speer is not a “Sergeant” he was a SFC, I didn’t catch this the first time, regrettably. I will revise the article to reflect this; there is a big difference between an E-5 and an E-7.
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[edit] remove editorializing -- see talk
I removed this paragaph not because it was not referenced -- something which could be fixed -- but because I thought it was editorializing. I found it interesting, and infomratiove, but it the wikipedia is not for advocacy.
If we can cite an authorititative source which offers the view that Khadr wasn't charged with killing a noncombatant medic because the Prosecutors know they couldn't back up tht charge, by all means we can cite that. Otherwise...
Cheers! Geo Swan 11:55, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] revert -- see talk
I reverted a recent edit with the edit summary (→Paramedic training and status as "medic" - Clarified Geneva Convention discussion to reflect Article 25 & 41 provisions.) No question that this material, properly cited, can be covered in the wikipedia. But, since it states: "It is not clear from published accounts whether Sgt. Speer's mission to investigate the compound for survivors was considered to meet these criteria or whether he was wearing the required distinctive armband." -- it doesn't belong here.
Accounts of the firefight make pretty clear that the GIs do not believe anyone survived. There is no support for the assertion that Speer was looking for survivors. The Toronto Star article stated:
"During the next 45 minutes, two Apache attack helicopters unloaded ordnance, two A-10 Warthogs pockmarked the land – at one point narrowly missing the spot where Morris had been dragged – and, finally, two F18s dropped 500-pound bombs.
"A few of the house's walls still stood, but the scene was largely now just a quiet, smouldering heap. No one believed any of the suspects had survived."
- (Michelle Shephard . "Khadr goes on trial", Toronto Star, April 29, 2007. Retrieved on 2007-09-29.
An article in the National Post stated:
"...with the five men refusing to give up even as they were being bombed from overhead. When the shooting stopped, Sgt. Speer and four other Special Forces soldiers were ordered to clear the compound -- collect arms and intelligence. When Sgt. Speer and his fellow soldiers entered the bombed-out compound, they weren't expecting to find anyone alive and were caught off guard when Omar, who was wounded from the bombing, and hiding between two mud-brick buildings, threw a grenade at the passing soldiers.
"'We were amazed that anyone could still be alive in there,' said Captain Mike Silver, who walked into the bombed-out compound behind Sgt. Speer. 'Within seconds, we had him [Omar] pinpointed and we opened fire.'"
- (Isabel Vincent. "The Good Son", National Post, December 28, 2002. Retrieved on 2007-09-29.
I'm removing "Military prosecutors and most press accounts refer to Speer as a "medic." Although Sgt. Christopher Speer had been trained as a medic, he was actually leading the squad combing the compound after they believed all occupants had been killed". The cited source, http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/01/11/1136956242159.html?page=2, is totally silent on the subject of whether Speer was a medic or not. If there is a source for the contention that "military prosecutors and most press accounts" are wrong in their use of "medic", that source is obviously not it. Furthermore, the contention Speer was "leading the squad" is actively contradicted by http://www.thestar.com/News/article/208502 which states that "Delta soldiers moved in through a hole in one of the walls. The fourth in line was Silver, and just behind him was Sgt. First Class Chris Speer". If Speer "leading the squad", why was he, an enlisted man, "behind" Mike Silver, an OFFICER?Bdell555 (talk) 14:38, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] revert -- see talk
I reverted this unexplained edit, after leaving a note on the wikipedian's talk page.
It just seemed to reduce the readability and maintainibility of the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geo Swan (talk • contribs)
- Agreed. Plus, {{reflist}} is unnecessary with relatively few citations. –Pomte 23:51, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Confirmed? See talk
The accidental release of OC-1's testimony is going to require a lot of revision of this and other related articles. I thought I should tone down one of those revisions.
Reasonable people can disagree as to whether the accidental release of the unredacted statement from the CIA official confirms that Khadr did not throw the grenade. The CBC article doesn't actually take the stand that the released document confirms that Khadr did not throw the grenade. I thought the version prior to mine needed to have this toned down. The CBC article quoted Khadr's lawywers stating it showed he didn't throw the grenade. It can be read as containing some broad hints that he didn't throw the grenade. But it stops short of saying he didn't throw the grenade.
I think some of my correspondents can guess as to which side I would take, in a private discussion. But, in article space, we can't go beyond what our references state. If someone found an authoritative reference that did state the new document proved Khadr didn't throw the grenade, we could include that conclusion in article space. But, we would have to attribute that conclusion to the source -- because other authoritative sources don't go that far.
