Talk:Choke (sports)

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Needs thorough cleansing of US centrism. Some of it is just plain wrong from a non US-centric point of view.Wincoote 03:38, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree, to much American sports. Maybe a list of examples could go down well?Hamedog 01:12, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

a list would require a large amount of agreement over and development towards what is generally considered a choke - it's defined as losing a game after establishing a large lead, but i think there are different kinds of chokes. the Red Sox/Yankees ALCS is a good example of the former, but the Colts in the AFC Divisional is an example of a choke of a different nature - performing drastically under expectations. i think a choke list could lead to a choke artist list(possibly article), as well. sorry to use american sports examples. -Nosirrah Yendor 20:21, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 2004 ALCS: Did the Red Sox win it or the Yankees blow it? 2 Recidivism - Raymond Poulidor 3 2007 Patriots 4 Clinton

[edit] 2004 ALCS: Did the Red Sox win it or the Yankees blow it?

I am sure that such a debate on this topic would stir a lot of rage, but one person's choke is another person's comeback.

Bottom of the eighth in game 4, Yankees' closer Mariano Rivera comes out on what seems like an automatic two inning save. In the bottom of the ninth, Kevin Millar of the Red Sox walks to start the inning, and Dave Roberts takes his place to pinch run. After several pickoff attempts, Rivera finally pitches to Bill Mueller, at which Roberts steals second base. Mueller singles to allow Roberts to score and tie.

Did Mariano Rivera blow the save by paying too much attention to Roberts and not enough attention to Mueller, or did Terry Francona, the Red Sox manager, develop a crafty play?

DaDoc540 14:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

how the hell do you consider the chargers to be chokers. schottenheimer = choker...philip rivers = clutch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.181.214.169 (talk) 08:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recidivism - Raymond Poulidor

Reading the Recidivism section made me think of the cyclist Raymond Poulidor, who "was known as the eternal second, because he finished the Tour de France in second place three times, and in third place five times (including his final Tour at the age of 40). Despite his consistency, he never wore the Yellow Jersey in 14 Tours, of which he completed 12.". Peoplesunionpro (talk) 19:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2007 Patriots

[sigh] Some goof is removing references to Super Bowl XLII. This is a significant milestone in sports chokes. We need to acknowledge such, and lock to prevent this user from removing the reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.115.155.55 (talk) 17:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is being removed since the loss was not a choke, a choke is a loss when something is guranteed to be a win. The 2006 loss by the Pats to the colts was a choke job when they gave up a huge lead in the 4th to lose, their loss in Super Bowl XLII was not a choke, it was only an upset. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.153.112.34 (talk) 18:47, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Wrong, it was a choke because they were anointed by the media and the players themselves as the undisputed champions weeks before the games were played. They choked away the championship they had already 'won'. But you're right on one count, the choke from the 06 AFC Title game should be listed as well. I'll fix. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.115.155.55 (talk) 19:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Only shows you have no real understanding of what a choke is. The game is played on the field, and week 17 proves that it wasn't a choke, since these 2 teams had already played and it was only a 3 point game in week 17, so it could have gone either way with 1 score at any point in both games. now if the pats had blown out the giants in week 17 by 20 points or something like that then yeah, we could probably call this game a choke, but they didn't, therefore not a choke. If you want to make this "complete" they take away your Patriot hate blinders, and throw in the 2001 RAMs as chokers, the 2007 Colts as chokers, the 2001 Steelers as chokers, the 2005 Colts as chokers, and I am sure there are 50 other instances we could put in there, face it, the only reason you are making this a big deal is your jealousy and you want to feel superior in the heat of the moment. It was a well fought battle between 2 very equal teams, "choke" is not part of equation with this Super Bowl, plain and simple. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.153.112.34 (talk) 19:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem with making this a complete listing of chokes. The bottom line, however, is that the MAGNITUDE of the Patriot choke (undefeated season on the line, highest scoring team ever, much lower seeded opponent) makes this a historically significant choke, where I do not think you can argue the same for the 01 Steelers, etc. This isn't a Pats bashing session. You have to accomlish a lot to make the kind of historic impact they've made this year... but that also includes the final result, no matter how much of a homer one is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.115.155.55 (talk) 19:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

You made it bashing session by calling it the biggest choke ever, and by making up a section just for the pats. add it to the list in there, but as long as you keep calling it the biggest choke or making up it's ow section just for the pats, I will be removing it. You are showing an bias by the language you are using and it removes any integrity that the article has because you are removing impartiality from it and going based on your own opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.153.112.34 (talk) 19:43, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Sigh - you're such a homer its silly trying to have a discussion with you. These are not my opinions, they are historical facts. This was in fact the biggest choke ever. Name another? Jets over Colts? Hardly. no other football example comes close. Basketball and baseball have series format, so you can hardly compare those to one game championships. This is in fact the biggest choke in the history of sports, and I will continue to add this historical context to the page.

Admin - please lock 66.153.112.34 from vandalizing further. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.115.155.55 (talk) 20:00, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Admin's - please stop everyone from vandalizing this page. I think there should be no adding of anything specific to the patriots from this super bowl until a full consensus of the situation can obtained. The above person claiming that this being the bigest choke in sports history is stating an opinion, not a fact. There are plenty of bigger chokes out there. The fact that these teams played 2 games this season, and both of them ended with only a 3 point difference in the final score, with each team winning 1 game invalidates the Super Bowl as a choke, but even if you want to call it a choke, it certainly cannot be considered "the biggest choke" in any sense of the word.

This entire site is about integrity of fact, an opinion is not fact. And for the record, I am a Steelers Fan, not a Pats fan, just look where my IP is located. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.153.112.34 (talk) 20:08, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Strike my last note about my IP, just realied it shows up at my companies HQ in Jersey, not my actual location in the Pittsburgh burbs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.153.112.34 (talk) 20:25, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clinton

I am deleting a reference to Hillary Clinton. While it may be true her campaign choked, this is an article about the term's reference to SPORTS. Any politcal discussion does not belong in this article.