Talk:Chishti Order

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I am deleting the following Para: "At its founding, the Chishti Order was known for its renunciation of worldly power, but this would change later when Chishti saints would ally with emperors, most notably the Mughal emperor Akbar"

Akber had deviated from Islam and introduced his own religion Deen-e-Ilahi which was a mixture of Hinduism and Islam. It was rejected by all Muslims and Hindus Alike. None of the Chisti Order notables ever supported Akbar. Hassanfarooqi 15:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Suggestion

This article would be a lot more helpful for a wide range of readers if someone explained what all these chains are. FreplySpang 12:19, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I have added links so people not knowing what Sufism, Sufi Orders, Silsilah, Tariqah, etc may understand them. To summarize it, 1400 years ago there were no formal school and people went to certain teachers for certain knowledge that they called Shaikh (Arabic for Old Man) or Pir (Persian for Old Man). When a certain student became a master, he was given Khilafah (Caliphate) and made Khalifa (Caliph). This Caliph would then be a Shaikh in his own capacity, have his own students, and his own Caliphs. This Chain of teachers is known as Silsilah (Arabic for Chain). These chains are for all knowledges including, but not limited to, Sufism. There are silsilah for the knowledge of Quran, Hadeeth, Fiqa, History etc. Any knowledge that is not passed thru a chain of authentic teachers is deemed unaunthentic. Therefore Muslims, especially Sufis are very fussy over the completion of chain. For this reason I have included a bio for all links in the chain although you do not see him notable. Hassanfarooqi 20:28, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
  • How about creating an article about the different chains withinn the chishti order. One can remove the different chains from here and paste them there. The common chain can remain here. Aswell should Prophet Mohammed and Maula Ali ibn Abu Talib be added to the common chain.Imranal 19:30, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help in article Mantle of Khilafat

I really could need help creating the article about mantle of khilafat. imranal (by the way how do you get the time function beside your user name)

Put four tidle marks "Hassanfarooqi 13:58, 15 November 2006 (UTC)" after your comments, and it will be converted into a date-time stamp. Please start the article and I will put it on my watch list and add material time to time. Others normally follow once the article starts and is interesting. Hassanfarooqi 13:58, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does this belong here

"Followers of Sikh Saint Kabir think he was also part of the Chishti order." I have never heard this name before. Can any one eloborate? Imranal 21:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The founder of Sikh religion Guru Nanak had been the student of Baba Fareed. For this reason you can see lots of quotations from Baba Fareed in his works. As a matter of fact in the teachings of the first five Gurus, who focused more on spiritualism then the next five who focused on militarism, the concepts of Chisti order are quite visible.
Bhagat Kabir Das was an early day Sikh Saint and for this reason he revered Prophet Muhammed and Chisti Saints. For this reason his followers regard him a Chishti, although he is a Sikh by faith.
Sai Baba of Shirdi is another example who is a Hindu but his followers consider him a Sufi.
Kabbalah, a Jewish methodology came into being when during the 12th century when Jews, uprooted from Christian areas during the crusades, sought refuge in Muslim Spain and came in contact with Sufis like Ibn Rushd (although Kabbalah is claimed to be since forever by some other name. See Zohar that emerged in 13the century Spain.
In a nutshell, Sufi teachings has charmed non-muslims since Sufies were secular in their approach as they reached out for non-Muslims
Hassanfarooqi 00:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Secular is not a word which i usually combine with sufism, what do you mean by that? Imranal 14:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I understand the word "secular" has become synonymous to "atheism" but that is not the case. Secularism means not attaching the label of one's religion in some action. When Sufis first arrive at a non Muslim society, they market Islamic ideology without attaching the label of Islam to it. They mainly focused on God's unity and the love for him and his prophet Muhammed. This was something prophet Muhammed did himself in Mecca when he invited people saying that he said nothing new and everything was already in the older books. The word Islam was attached much later. Hassanfarooqi 22:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verification needed

This is from the Sabiriyya - Quddusia - Emdadia Lineage : { 20. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina wa Sayyid al-Arifin 'Ala uddin Ali Ahmad as-Sabir (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 21. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Shams uddin at-Turki al-Panipati (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 22. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Jalaluddin Kabir al-Awliya al-Panipati (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 23. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Ahmed Abdul Haq Radaulawi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 24. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Ahmed 'Arif ar-Radaulawi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 25. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Muhammad 'Arif ar-Radaulawi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 26. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Qutb al-'Alam al-Shaikh Abdul Quddus al-Gangohi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 27. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Jalaluddin Thanesari (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 28. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Nizam uddin al-Balkhi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 29. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Abi Sa 'id al-Gangohi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 30. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Muhibbullah Ilahabadi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 31. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Shah Muhammadi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 32. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina al-Shaikh Muhammad al-Makki (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 33. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Adh uddin al-Amruhi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 34. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Abdul Hadi al-Amruhi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 35. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Abdul Bari al-Amruhi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 36. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Shah Abdur Rahim al-Shahid (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 37. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Sayyidina Nur Muhammad Jhinjhanawi (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) 38. Shaikh al-Mashaikh Maulana al-Haj al-Hafiz al-Shaikh Imdadullah Muhajir Makki (Qaddas allahu sirahul 'aziz) } -- Imranal 17:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Since verification was not given for all chains except the common chain, I have subsequently deleted them. If you wish to add them again, please cite source or atleast provide verification with iw-links. However it has been sugested that for the rest of the chains, another article be constructed for this purpose. There is no need to have every possible chain after the common chain. If every chain had to be represented, this article would have prelonged beyond resonable length. This would aswell not seem encyclopedic. -- Imranal 17:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Same person?

Is 13.Khawaja Nasihuddin Abu Mohammad the same person as 12.Abu Muhammad Bin Abi Ahmad. Please see the common chain. I have read that 12.Abu Muhammad Bin Abi Ahmad were maternal uncle of 14.Sayyid Abu Yusuf Bin Sam’aan Al-Husaini and 14.Sayyid Abu Yusuf Bin Sam’aan Al-Husaini succeded 12.Abu Muhammad Bin Abi Ahmad. Can anyone verify this? Imranal 19:30, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I have corrected the two bios that were causing confusion. These two bio-stubs were not done by me. I have now expanded them and hope it makes more sense to you. I had only posted the "Common Chishtiyya Chain in South Asia" only as I found them in historical books like "Mashaikh-e-Chisht". I do not know how the other people came up with other branches. They clash with recorded history. However I am not going to get into the argument. My immediate target was to complete the bios of the common chain and alhamdulillah I have done it. I shall next be expanding them slowly. Then I shall cover the branches of Chishtiyya Order and then go to other order. Finally my goal is to cover all Sufi concepts such as Latif-Sitta, Dhikrs, Shaghals, Manazil's etc. I hope some day I will do comparitive study of Sufi concepts with Jewish Kaballah, Christian Gnosis, and pagan pantheism to show how they are different Hassanfarooqi 22:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your contribution :) Imranal 23:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The nine principles

The Nine Principles

The Chishti Order is also known for the following principles:

   * Obedience to shaykh or pir
   * Renunciation of the material world
   * Distance from worldly powers
   * Sama (or musical assemblies)
   * Prayers and fasting
   * Service to humanity
   * Respect for other devotional traditions
   * Dependence on voluntary offerings
   * Disapproval of miraculous feats

I altered the part relating extremme prayers and fasting to just prayer and fasting. I did this because i felt it was more representative to what is important to chishti's, i.e prayers and fasting. It is not important to be extremme regarding prayers and fasting, but instead focus on the fact that prayers and fasing is done to "cure" one self of the nafs, and to acheive Gods grace. Can any one counter this?

There is something about the second last point  : Dependence on voluntary offerings. Can't someone who belongs to the Chishti order have a job? Imranal 23:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC) Should the principle : Dependence on voluntary offerings, be removed and hence the title nine principles should be changed to 8 principles.(yes, yes, i know . Nine is a magic number :) ) Imranal 17:02, 26 November 2006 (UTC)