Talk:Channel 4/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

See also Talk:Channel 4/Archive 2

Contents

To the Americans

To make clear, "Channel 4" is not the name of simply the channel which operates on four, it is in fact the name of the company and part of its specific brand. This ties into its other promotions like the T4 show and the E4 and More 4 channels. Unlike, say, CNN or FOX, which may operate consistently on the channel, it is not part of their actual name and brand.

Put simply, there's nothing else you can call it. Channel 4, as a company, exists and is worthy of a Wikipedia entry.

To whoever wrote the above text

I'm sure that if you really want the Americans to see the above text, you're going to have to alter it in a way so that the TOC will appear below it and above the next header, which I don't see a way it can be done. Georgia guy 21:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Private firm

I removed "a private firm " from "Unlike the BBC, it is a private firm funded by advertising rather than the licence fee."

C4 is a statutory non-profit-making corporation and has been since 1990. Before that it was a subsidiary of the IBA/ITC. It is not a private firm, and has no shareholders. Privatisation has been discussed and (so far) put off, and it is possible that 4 Ventures which runs FilmFour, E4, attheraces etc. will be partly sold off in the future. --rbrwr

Note: ITC site could be useful for this page in the future --rbrwr

I've attempted to clarify C4's status as a hybrid between commercial and public service broadcasting; I think this article has been going down the wrong road on this since Lezek's edit of November 3. I'm open to other opinions, though. --rbrwr

Please move this page

How will anyone know that it is what it is and not a television channel in the United States that is designated as Channel 4?? Please move this page to Channel 4 (Britain)

Hm... the fact that the first line of this article says Channel 4 is a television broadcaster in the United Kingdom kind of gives it away really. FYI the United States is not the centre of the Universe. Mintguy (T) 01:20, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Also, there could be no possible Wikipedia article for "Channel 4 (United States)" that would make any coherent sense, because whether NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, etc. is on Channel 4 in a particular city varies across the country, so the only conceivable article for "Channel 4 in the US" would be a list of what (if any) network is carried on Channel 4 in various cities. In contrast, Channel 4 in the UK is a consistent, branded, important network of its own right, and deserves an entry without disambiguation. As Mintguy mentions too, the fact that it's a UK network is specifically mentioned in the first line of the article. Moncrief, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Recently, someone created an article similar to the kind of list being talked about above, the only difference is being the channel number 6. Georgia guy 01:07, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Apparently, somebody thinks the UK is the centre of the world. Hundreds of millions of people have a channel four on their dial, and most don't get this station. It needs to be moved. Unless this is the first channel four on Earth, there's no reason to give it special status. More signficantly, it makes it easy for erroneous links to this article to be made. --Rob 08:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, this old chestnut yet again. No, we don't think the UK is the centre of the world, however this channel, known as "Channel 4" is available to well over 60 million English speakers, which none of the other channels on the disambiguation page do. The largest on there would be the New York channel WNBC aka NBC4 aka NewsChannel4 (which doesn't actually seem to use the branding "Channel 4") indicates it broadcasts to the tri-state area, roughly co-terminus with the New York metropolitan area with a population of a third of to a half that. It is wikipedia policy "to name articles what to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity". While this is not a majority, it is certainly a plurality. To my mind that should be enough. There is a disambiguation page at the top anyway, for people who want other Channel 4s. Incedently Channel 4 (Britain), would be completely incorrect as it is widely broadcast in Northern Ireland (not part of Britain) but not in Wales (part of Britain). – MrWeeble Talk Brit tv 11:07, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for confirming what I said. The centre of the world has spoken. --Rob 11:52, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

True or false??

True or false: this network really is on Channel 4 on all U.K. televisions. 66.32.244.69 02:27, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

That depends what you mean by "really on channel 4". In terms of nominal UHF channel, it's not possible, because UK channels are numbered from 21 to 68. Most televisions will have Channel 4 on preset button 4 of their tuner. On the other hand, my digital cable box has presets starting at 100, with Channel 4 on 104. Does that help? --rbrwrˆ 06:04, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Extrapolation

Can this be extrapolated?? According to what Wikipedia says, ITV is preset button 3 and Five is 5. I believe BBC is 2 and Sky Broadcasting is 6. Can anyone complete this??

  1. ___
  2. BBC
  3. ITV
  4. Channel 4
  5. Five
  6. Sky Broadcasting
  7. ___
  8. ___
  9. ___
  10. ___
  11. ___
  12. ___
  13. ___

66.245.105.195 01:45, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There's nothing that forces people to have their channels in a particular order, as analogue broadcast channels can appear anywhere between UHF channels 21 and 68. However, most people will have set up their channels so that they appear as

  1. BBC1
  2. BBC2
  3. ITV
  4. Channel 4
  5. five

With digital tv it all depends on the platform. Sky Digital channel numbering starts from BBC1 at 101 in the UK (RTE1 is on 101 in the republic of Ireland). I have Freeview, and my channels are numbered:

  • 1 BBC1
  • 2 BBC2
  • 3 ITV1
  • 4 Channel 4 (in England, Scotland, and N. Ireland. S4C in Wales)
  • 5 five
  • 6 ITV2
  • 7 BBC3
  • 8 vacant in England; Channel 4 in Wales, something in Gaelic in Scotland.
  • 9 Teletext
  • 10 BBC4
  • 11 Sky Travel
  • 12 UKTV History
  • 13 S4C2 (Wales only)
  • 14 E4
  • 15 abc1
  • 16 QVC (not Wales)
  • 17 UKTV Gold
  • 18 The Hits
  • 19 UKTV Bright Ideas
  • 20 ftn
  • 21 TMF
  • 22 Ideal World
  • 23 bid-up tv
  • 24 price drop tv
  • 25 TCM
  • 26 UKTV Style
  • 27 Discovery
  • 28 Discovery Home & Leisure
  • 29 UKTV Food
  • 30 CBBC
  • 31 CBeebies
  • 32 Cartoon Network
  • 33 Boomerang
  • 34 ITV3
  • 40 BBC News 24
  • 41 ITV News Channel
  • 42 Sky News
  • 43 Sky Sports News
  • 44 Bloomberg
  • 45 BBC Parliament
  • 46 Community

plus various interactive channels. -- Arwel 02:51, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

No 13! Is this related to triskaidekaphobia?? 66.245.70.203 02:53, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

nope, S4C2 is on 13, but only in Wales. There is speculation on the net that S4C2 (which primarly shows news from the Welsh Assembly), will move to 47 with the other current affairs leaving 13 free for ITV3 (to launch Nov 1) or possibly More4 (early 2005) MrWeeble 16:08, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In Ireland, there are nine preset channels. In the north-west counties, around the Donegal/Derry/Tyrone area, there are 10.

  • 1. BBC 1
  • 2. BBC 2
  • 3. UTV (ITV Northern Ireland)
  • 4. Channel 4
  • 5. five
  • 6. RTE 1
  • 7. RTE 2
  • 8. TV3
  • 9. Channel 9 (Officially called C9TV, but still referred to by people as the name it began with)
  • 10. TG4

Robert Mc Cann

Page name

Am I the only one that thinks this page should really be on "Channel Four" or "Channel Four Television"? Chris 01:52, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes. AFAIK the official name is a numeral, not a word, and the common name certainly is. Joe D (t)
Indeed, if you look on the channel 4 website, they only ever refer to themselves as "Channel 4", as do ofcom on their site, so should not be movedMrWeeble 07:33, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Strange. HMSO's record of the legal documents seem to disagree, as does the channel4.com WHOIS record, and the ASA for that matter. In fact, it seems Ofcom only refer to "Channel 4" in the same way as they refer to "Channel 3". On the licence page, they are described as "Channel Four Television". One would also assume that thire entry as members of the DVB Consortium would also be accurate. It is also cited as their name on their own site. Of course, HMSO, Ofcom, the ASA, InterNIC and Channel Four themselves could all be wrong ... Chris 23:40, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I would still be for keeping it at "Channel 4" and just changing the intro to "Channel Four Television, known to most as Channel 4, ...", for two reasons:
  1. "Channel 4" is not only the common name, but the most commonly used brand name format of Channel Four Television Corporation - more people know the subject of this article as a television channel & brand than they do as a business.
  2. everybody will link to and search for "Channel 4" and this way it will reduce redirecting/simplify linking.
Joe D (t) 00:33, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • You say that they refer to Channel 4 the same way they refer to Channel 3 but Channel 3 is not a live Wikipedia article. 66.245.21.126 00:55, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Who says that and where? There is no "Channel 3" article because there isn't a television station named "Channel 3". Joe D (t) 01:20, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
"Channel 3" is the term used to describe ITV in the 1990 Broadcasting Act. It was intended to rebrand all the ITV companies "Channel 3 something", but only Tyne-Tees TV went so far as to rename itself "Channel 3 NorthEast" for a few years in early 1990s, before reverting back to TTTV. It was all rather like that Post Office --> Consignia stupid idea... -- Arwel 01:41, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It's also the way in which Ofcom refer to the ITV network - you'll find numerous references to the "Channel 3 companies" in amongst the finer print. But what are we documenting here? The company and its service, or the brand name? Chris 21:23, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Both! Joe D (t) 22:11, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Page move

(from WP:RM)

Channel Four → Channel Four Television

  • There is a debate mentioned at Talk:Channel 4 on which of these titles is better. 66.32.249.42 02:43, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • It's not much of a debate, it's pretty clear that Channel 4 is the preferred location of the article. -- Arwel 16:48, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • I agree with Arwel - it's fine where it is. -- Avaragado 19:08, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep where it is, I've already given the reasons on the talk page. Joe D (t) 23:18, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep as Channel 4. While the legal name of the corporation is Channel Four Television Corporation, The channel is always called Channel 4. I think most people are more likely to link to the channel rather than the corporation. However, an argument could be made that we should create a page called Channel Four Television Corporation to explain the unique governance and the other channels from the corporation (E4, FilmFour, More4 etc) MrWeeble 21:04, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Or at least redirect Channel Four Television Corporation to Channel 4/Channel Four/Channel Four Television. Thelb4 17:53, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Private firm / Non-Profit

Channel 4 is a publicly owned coporation, not a non-profit making organisation. For more information see the 2003 annual report. In 2002 the group profit before tax and restructuring costs for the year was £33 million[1] JB --62.255.64.5

Yes, I think you have expressed it more clearly and correctly than I did. C4 does exist to make a profit, even though the profits are all kept as increased net assets and not paid out as dividend to shareholders. Indeed, the 31 December 2003 balance sheet shows no share capital at all, and the net assets exactly equal the accumulated P&L. Nobody takes any profit away from C4. I think it would be wrong to describe it as a "private firm" as this article once did. --rbrwr± 12:34, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Favourite swear words promo

I don't think this particular promo has ever been shown on TV except as part of a documentary. Anyone know different? --Bonalaw

I don't know, but I wonder when in the day that would have gotten played. It's stuff like that that makes me greatful that I don't have to watch American TV. I mean, that would probably close an American (apart from HBO, probably) channel down... Perks July 8, 2005 12:32 (UTC)

Pretty sure I've seen it on telly. Would have been after the watershed. MrWeeble 8 July 2005 14:10 (UTC)
No it has not been shown on TV, except as part of a documentary about taboos. This was confirmed on the documentary, and it has not been shown since the documentary. It definately will not be shown because some of them say cunt which as the documentary said, is the worst swear word. Borb 21:10, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
I've removed that statement, since I recall having seen that several times - typically during early morning. Don't remember seeing it much before midnight though, but I definitely have seen it. I distinctly remember "buggeration", Twicenightly's "slobknocks" (or something similar) and one of the guys from Scrubs launching into a tirade, ending in something like "bitch ... head". I would try watching the link, but it's just not working for me. Chris talk back 22:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
It was probably withdrawn rather swiftly then. Was it ever shown in cinemas? I think that was the original idea for that particular promo. Incidentally, the word Richard Whiteley said was "Sloblock". It comes from a Fry & Laurie sketch sending up Countdown in which the selection on the letters board reads BOLLOCSK (sic, and yes, it's only eight letters). -Bonalaw 09:09, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Having now been able to watch the whole thing, it seems longer. Perhaps it was a trimmed-down version that was used on-air. Chris talk back 20:42, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Public Service Broadcasting

In the first paragraph of this article, it says "Channel 4 is a public service television broadcaster" ... "Unlike the nation's long established public service broadcaster, the BBC, it does not receive public funding." However, the linked Public broadcasting is defined as "receives funding from the public." So apparently, a channel has to recieve public money to be a public service, making C4 not a public service broadcaster.

Seems conflicting - can Channel 4 indeed be referred to as "public service broadcaster" and if so, can anyone make the meaning clearer on either article?
-- jeffthejiff (talk) 22:52, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

"Public service television broadcaster" is a jargon phrase used by the regulator Ofcom to refer to a variety of UK broadcasters, in as much as they provide services that are a public service above and beyond what might be cost-effective or demanded by the market. The BBC (which is publicly owned and funded) has the widest range of public service broadcasting commitments; Channel 4 (publicly owned but advertising funded) has a special remit to innovate and cater to diverse audiences; The entirely commercial organisations Channel3 (ITV) and Channel 5 (five) have PSB commitments to provide news and commision original British programming and are also considered to be part of the PSB landscape. so it seems that "public service broadcaster" and "public broadcasting" are not necessarily the same thing. Ofcom has been going through a review of all this and how it will play out in the digital multichannel world after the scarcity of analogue bandwidth ceases to be a factor (Ofcom PDF). See also About Channel 4. --rbrwr± 23:31, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Channel 4 has met and continues to meet the definition of "public service" ever since the IBA decided to dump the ITV Schools strand into a then-unused 3-hour block in the mornings (bizarrely, staring at 9.25 - when the ITV companies would pick up the handover from TV-am. There was probably some arcane reason for choosing that particular time to start ... Anyway, Channel 4 still broadcasts schools programming from 9-12 during the school term. Chris talk back 23:01, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
All six analogue stations are considered as Public Service Broadcasters, BBC, Channel 3 (ITVplc, SMG, UTVplc & Channel TV), Channel 4, S4C and Five. They all have to broadcast, say a specific number of hours of news and current affairs or local output (BBC and ITV). As for Channel 4 (and S4C) it gets money indirectly, I believe it does not have to pay for its transmission (excluding digital channels; E4, FilmFour, More4). :: Keith :: 16:21, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

"E4, a digital entertainment channel previously available on the Internet"

The sentence "E4, a digital entertainment channel previously available on the Internet" needs explaining. Since E4 launched in 2001, I assume that E4 wasn't a download or catch-up service, as these didn't really exist at the time.

Fourohfour 12:35, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it was some sort of service like FourDocs, it was available on the intenret before it started broadcasting in its current state. :: Keith :: 12:47, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Can anyone help me get channel 4?

We can get a hundred channels with our Satelite dish and "Nokia mediamaster 9740" from France but fail to get Channel 4 and all the other "4" channels (and five which we would quite like too). These channels are actually on our list of "All TV" but not on "free tv". I don't understand it at all.

Does anyone have any suggestions or explanations? 193.249.29.96 15:20, 28 December 2005 (UTC) alex

Channel Four, More4 etc are Free to view but not Free to Air, you need to have a card from BSkyB in order to access it, these cards are used to ensure you get the right BBC One, BBC Two ITV, and Channel 4 region. (All BBC and, I think, ITV channels are broadcast Free to Air) Keith 15:31, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Additionally, E4 and More4 are only available as part of a pay-tv package on Sky due to the terms of Channel 4's contract with BSkyB, even though they are FTA on DTT. It is expected that when the contract for conditional access expires in October 2008, then Channel 4 will broadcast these channels FTA. This is, as I recall, pretty much what happened with BBC and ITV when they went FTV to FTA. MrWeeble Talk Brit tv 16:36, 28 December 2005 (UTC)