Talk:Chamber music
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm not going to edit the page at the moment, but I'm not sure of the worth of listing chamber repertoire in this page. The repertoire varies according to group - a string quartet shares no repertoire at all with a piano trio, for instance. So wouldn't repertoire lists be better on those individial pages (string quartet, piano trio, string trio, piano quintet and so on)? --Camembert
- I agree with Camembert--the list could get so huge that readers would have trouble finding what they're looking for. Better to use the existing structure of the Wikipedia to keep things organized. --Opus33 19:43, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Ok, I thought I had reverted that portion of my edit when I copied some of the repertoire to piano trio. I'll do it now. UninvitedCompany 19:47, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] Complete Scope of Chamber Music
I would like to know the complete scope of chamber music, i.e., the instruments involved. Is 2 pianos included? Thank you so much. - von Herzen
- To quote from Groves: "Similarly, although chamber music is often defined as involving two or more players, much solo repertory such as Renaissance lute music, Bach’s violin sonatas and partitas and cello suites and several of Beethoven’s piano sonatas fulfils many of the functions and conditions of chamber music." --bleh fu 04:20, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Organization
Perhaps a list-format would be more effective for displaying the multitude of different arrangements. I think that organization by the number of people in the ensemble would be the most effective, but this also runs the risk of redundancy -- perhaps limiting it to the most common/popular sub-categories would be prudent; I think something like this would work well:
etc. Possible issues:
- How to deal with ensembles that don't fit easily into any of these categories?
- Possibly organize by instrumentation as well? Wind chamber music? Piano chamber music?
- How to deal with vocal chamber music? Maybe that needs an article for itself.
I'd love feedback. Cheers. --bleh fu 04:43, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)
What about tables? I think this looks good. However, they will be quite cumbersome to maintain, xhtml, html, wikitable, whatever. --bleh fu 06:04, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)
- I like the idea; you've already done what seems to be the biggest pain about it, the initial setup. Two suggestions: for instrumental sonata, you could probably just have one entry there, with the instrument being piano + other instrument (perhaps linking the ones that have separate articles in the comments ("see violin sonata, ...")). For another, I'd probably mention notable nonstandard instrumentations like the Schubert separately as notable exceptions rather than putting them in the table. Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 06:22, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I think I like incorporating uncommon examples in the table -- it takes advantage of its visual clarity. I think it's worth the inconvenience in table coding. --bleh fu 06:41, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)
- Moved the table to the article. --bleh fu 03:39, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
- I like the table. Let's definitely expand it (sextet, octet, different kinds of trios, etc.) Antandrus 03:40, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Plentious?
Is 'plentious' a word? Did the author mean 'plenteous'? I haven't changed it, because even if it's a mistake, it's a good word. Plus there is a very, very old wiki custom of leaving little imperfections like this around - wabi-sabi, we called it.
-- Tom Anderson 2008-03-21 some time in the evening —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.56.86.107 (talk) 20:57, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Added some stuff
Quite a bit of stuff, actually. This is a work in progress. I have left the section on 20th century music blank, hoping someone more knowledgeable than I on the topic would complete it. I am gradually adding pictures and music samples, but I thought I ought to go public with it now rather than wait. --Ravpapa (talk) 15:18, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Bartók - Sonata for two pianos and percussion - Assai lento - Allegro molto (clip).ogg
The image Image:Bartók - Sonata for two pianos and percussion - Assai lento - Allegro molto (clip).ogg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
-
- That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
- That this article is linked to from the image description page.
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --07:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Removal of links to nonfree content
I posted the following on User:Nixeagle's talk page about his deletion of the YouTube link to the Debussy quartet:
I disagree with your decision to remove this musical example, for the following reasons:
1. The musical examples in the article - and especially this one - are not mere decoration, but they are there to illustrate important milestones in the history of chamber music. And the Debussy quartet (as the article points out) is perhaps the most pivotal work of chamber music written in the last 120 years, as it heralds the end of tonality as we know it. Removing this example is a substantive deletion of relevant material.
2. As you could see if you read the article carefully, I have made every effort to use free material when it was available. I even enlisted free material - I convinced the Carmel Quartet to release their recordings of key works under a CC license (it wasn't too hard - they are good friends of mine). I used nonfree material only when I couldn't find free material.
3. Whenever I used nonfree material (by linking to YouTube), I linked only to videos that were posted by the performers themselves. There are plenty of recordings on YouTube that people taped from other sources and posted. I never used those, as the actual copyright owners might not agree to the use of their materials on YouTube. However, when a person posts a video of himself performing, it is fair to assume that that person wants other people to view the video. However, just to be sure, in every case where I used a YouTube video, I contacted the poster and received permission.
4. As you know, the subject of linking from Wikipedia to YouTube articles has been discussed often at the village pump, and it is not only not forbidden, but explicitly allowed.
As one who plays and performs myself, I am as sensitive as anyone to the issues of copyright infringement and would never do anything to impinge on the rights of others - certainly not in the Wikipedia. Moreover, I laud Wikipedia's objective of being a repository of free content. I will certainly replace any nonfree example used in any of my articles with a free one if I can find one. In the meantime, however, I believe the links to YouTube are justified and necessary.
If I do not receive a response from you within a couple of days, I will restore the example. --Ravpapa (talk) 05:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
-
- Next day: My long harangue on this matter wore down poor User:Nixeagle, who responded, "Blah, go for it." Thank you, Nixeagle. --Ravpapa (talk) 06:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Chamber orchestra
Is a chamber orchestra (less than 40 members) considered a kind of chamber music ensemble? Should it be in the table? — Gwalla | Talk 17:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Interesting question. My inclination is no. If we include it, that means that just about all the music written up to Beethoven is chamber music (Mozart and Haydn symphonies, for example, with two horns and two oboes and strings). The article on Orchestra mentions chamber orchestras, but doesn't discuss them.
Our article defines chamber music as one player to a part, so if we include chamber orchestras, we would have to change that definition. --Ravpapa (talk) 05:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
