Talk:Chairman

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Contents 1 separate existence of "Chairman" 2 corporate governance 3 Other terms, "as a job" section 4 Removed section 5 Merge to suggestion

[edit] separate existence of "Chairman"

Although the usage of the term "chairperson" may have become more prevalent in some circles, and the often interchanging use with "Chairman", I contend that the word "Chairman" has an existence in its own right in much the same way as "President", and deserves an independent entry. It would be inappropriate to redirect search for "Chairman" to "Chairperson".

The term "Chairperson" is but a modern reinvention of "Chairman" for reasons of political correctness, and by that fact, the entry for "Chairman" should be the "main" entry. The listing of "Chairperson" in Wiki should conversely be brief and summary purely describing its origin/evolution in order not to have to maintain two separate entries with diverging content about Chairmen/Chairpeople and Chairmanship.

When referring to any corporation which has formally given the titles of "Chairman", "Chairwoman", "Chair", "Chairperson", "President", to one of its members, it would be wholly inappropriate to use any other term than the one designated.

In the same vein, of historical relevance is the fact that Mao Zedong is "Chairman Mao" and not "Chairperson Mao". Equally, citing the Taiwanese rock Group Chairman under "Chairperson" seems to me rather incongruous, as it would be tantamount to changing the Group's name without the group having renamed itself. Ohconfucius 06:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Note Edited. As "Chairperson" is the neologism, it should be redirected to "Chairman" in the case of a merger. Ohconfucius 02:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Note from Donald Klopper (donald.klopper@gmail.com) I have been led to understand that "chairman" refers to the "hand that rules the chair", since the word "man" can refer to "hand" (Latin origin: manus?). I came to Wikipedia hoping to find vindication for this, however found none.

Etymology suggests that chairman does refer to a male person, as chairwoman was also in use not longer after chairman. Chair is the appropriate gender neutral term. See the following...

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=chair

http://gorbould.com/blog/2006/07/is-chairman-sexist.html

http://www.word-detective.com/112304.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 150.101.221.106 (talk) 14:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC).

Inclusive language, such as the redefinition of Chairman to Chairperson is ridiculous and not a solution to the problem. The word son, which appears in the word Chairperson is inherently male still.

[edit] corporate governance

2nd graf could really use some help; someone more familiar with corporate governance topics want to take a stab at it? 18.26.0.18 04:29, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The claim that chair came to mean presiding officer because "in the early middle ages, only kings had beds and chairs" looks suspiciously like folk etymology. According to SOED, this sense of "chair" is actually a direct borrowing from Old French chaiere (throne, pulpit, bishopric), the word for "chair" in the common sense being "chaise". I've therefore removed the etymological note for the time being; if anyone wants to restore it, please can they provide an authoritative source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.86.133.45 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Other terms, "as a job" section

The claims that "chairman" derived from "chair manager" or "chair mana" both strike me as highly dubious; anyone who wants to restore them, please give sources. That "chairman" has a "genderless derivation" is possible ("man" meaning _homo_ rather than _vir_), but without the two probably false etymologies that I cut, was left unsupported, so I cut it as well.

This discussion, oddly, was in a section called "as a job", so I moved it to the intro. That left a single sentence:

If the position persists beyond the meeting, they may also be entrusted with various other executive powers.

which isn't worth a section (and isn't clearly written anyway). So the entire "as a job" section is gone. Perhaps someone would like to rewrite it, as a genuine discussion of what chairmanships are as a job. --Trovatore 17:11, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removed section

I've removed:

"Chairperson, or simply Chair, is the preferred term to replace Chairman or Chairwoman to prevent possible confusion."

There seem a number of problems with it as it stands. Preferred by whom on what evidence? What confusion is it preventing exactly? Unless we have some source showing that the world does indeed prefer it (seemingly contradicted by the numbers using the traditional forms) then this statement looks like advocacy of a POV. If someone feels strongly about the above then they need to source some references to back it up. Alci12 11:44, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

What confusion? Someone can be Mr. or Madam Chairman. The 'man' in this sort of word is non-gender specific. It is only in the past couple of centuries that 'man' has come to mean someone who is male rather than simply a person. There are references in Anglo-Saxon document which refer to women simply as 'a man —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.106.209 (talk • contribs)

Your edit caused the unnecessary creation of a separate Chairperson page to which Chairmen is redirected. Instead of saying

"Chairperson, or simply Chair, is the preferred term to replace Chairman or Chairwoman to prevent possible confusion."

It may be more correct to say in circles where Political correctness concerns are in vogue "Chairperson, or simply Chair, is the preferred term to replace Chairman or Chairwoman to prevent offense." We need more collaborative editing here. The Chairman people should work together with the Chairperson people on this matter. Separate pages is unnecessary. TonyTheTiger 16:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I for one would have no objection to merge in the direction proposed. After all, the term "Chairman" pre-dates "Chairperson" by numerous decades. It is an accepted fact that Chairperson is a neologism coined in the 1970s to avoid perceived sexist connotations, but I personally believe these perceptions to be utter bollocks, but it does not get over the fact that some may still be fixated by them in this day and age. Ohconfucius 02:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge to suggestion

I admit, I made the merge suggestion prior to reading topic 1 on this page. However, I still believe a merge is appropriate with a prominent section in the Chairman page discussion the details on this page. TonyTheTiger 17:04, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that we're not here to change social customs or language use, but to right an encyclopedia which reflects the most common usage; and their's no need to awnser what's most used. For this, I definitely believe that chairman should not be merged in chairperson, while I would agree on a merge of chairperson in chairman.--Aldux 01:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Dude! I feel like I just walked into an Elks Club from the 1950s. Who in their right mind still uses the word chairman when referring to a woman? That's been stilted and obsolete for, like, 30 years. At least 25, and during that time the usage has been essentially absent from mainstream newspapers and textbooks. I'm redirecting chairperson to chair (official). This page ought to be redirected there, too, unless this page focuses primarily on the word's historical usage. But I won't do it myself, because I see that this page is watched over by Old Boys. COGDEN 22:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)