Talk:Central Jersey/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Contents

Definition

To Chrisruvolo:

Your explanation makes no sense. You are only reverting because you do not want to exclude the geographic areas I took out in my revision. We are here to be accurate, not to make you happy.

Central Jersey is inexorably linked to the Raritan River. Go to Central Jersey and ask residents and that is what they will likely tell you. The Raritan River runs primarily thorough Somerset County, Middlesex County, Monmouth County and Hunterdon County. The River borders Mercer County in the South and runs through Morris to the North. I do not think it would be accurate to consider Morris (or Union) to be part of Central Jersey since they are always associated with North Jersey. One could make the argument that Central Jersey is North Jersey because the Raritan River almost exclusively runs through areas north of the center of the state. I also do not think it would be accurate to include Mercer into Central Jersey. Central Jersey is clearly linked to the New York Metro area, whereas Mercer is its own Metro area (Trenton-Ewing, also Princeton is very developed). Unlike the rest of Central Jersey, Mercer is closer to Philly than it its to New York City. I understand that Mercer is difficult to describe because the county is pulled by both the New York and Philly Metro regions in addition to having an urban region in its own right. However, to include Mercer would compromise the identity of Central Jersey simply for ease in nomenclature. Therefore, Mercer should not be included. As for Ocean, that was not even close. Simply because Ocean is hard to categorize does not privilege it to be considered part of Central Jersey. Ocean is not even close to the Raritan River.

I will continue to undo you if you cannot provide a real justification against the changes. Jps57 (talk) 04:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)jps57

I would recommend against "continu[ing] to undo" another editor, as that sounds a lot like edit warring.
It seems to me, jps57, that this article lacks sources entirely. So, while your explanation may disagree with Chris's explanation, there are no sources here to justify your claim that "Central Jersey is inexorably linked to the Raritan River". Can you produce some? - Revolving Bugbear 18:02, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
That's a good point Revolving Bugbear, but the problem is that I cannot find any credible sources. I do not think blogs are sufficient. And I cannot find any news articles or stories defining "Central Jersey." You could try, but I just don't think defining regions is of importance to credible sources. However, that does not make ChrisRuvolo's point as credible than mine. That's relativism because I think ChrisRuvolo was simply undoing because he felt like it, not because he lives in the region or knows a lot of people in the region. I am currently located close to Central Jersey, and I can tell you for a fact that Central Jersey is routinely interchanged with "Raritan Valley." There is a Raritan in Somerset County and a Raritan Township in Hunterdon, I believe. There is a Raritan Valley Community College. Furthermore, I know many in Morris County consider themselves to be in Central Jersey, even though Morris expands essentially to the very northern portion of New Jersey. That, reasonably understood, occurs probably because the Raritan River runs into Morris, especially in the western portion of the county. The two closest "sources" I can come up with are the optimum online subscription, which lists "Raritan Valley" as a region and the way facebook divides regions (Trenton-Princeton is a region along with Central Jersey). Now that I think about it, I would say Monmouth is sort of divided because it could be characterized as part of the "Jersey Shore." However, I remain steadfast on my insistence that Mercer should not be included because it is its own Metro region with its own peculiar traits distinct from those in Central Jersey. Ocean is beyond logic because simply from a geographic standpoint, it is in South Jersey. And no matter what you think, even with Mercer, most Central Jersey counties are north of the center of the state.
I will say this, if no one can find articles, then you have to go by what people in the region say, not by someone's own interests. The above analysis is based on ACTUAL OBSERVATION, WITH CLEAR EXAMPLES. So, I will continue to undo changes until one of both of you come up with similar analysis about the region, or find sources refuting my analysis (good luck with that). It is not enough to use relativism as an excuse. Good day. Jps57 (talk) 21:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)jps57
A couple of points:
  1. To claim that Chris's was "simply undoing because he felt like it" is not assuming good faith. Why don't you let Chris explain why he believes what he believes and whether he has any sources. Please see WP:AGF.
  2. "Actual observation with clear examples" is original research. Unfortunately, your personal observations are no more appropriate to Wikipedia than Chris's speculation. Please see WP:NOR.
  3. I am from Central Jersey -- Monmouth County, to be precise -- and I'm not sure that I agree with your analysis.
- Revolving Bugbear 00:19, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
To jps57: A widely accepted definition of Central Jersey has been present in this article for some time. Yes, sources are needed. Your unilateral reduction of the definition without discussion, consensus or a reliable source is thus counter-productive. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 04:11, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay, calm down people. You guys needs to understand that sometimes, you simply cannot find any sources for articles on wikipedia. Like I said, the local media in Central Jersey have better things to do with their time than cover stories on what defines "Central Jersey." The South Jersey article has a few sources, but they do not define Central Jersey at all. One is a blog, which as I have said is useless because anyone can start a blog. I guess you can use the North Jersey article to justify my point about the Raritan River. That line has been up for a long time and has not been disputed.
Also, ChrisRuvolo is wrong. That original Central Jersey article was terrible. Notwithstanding the poor grammar, the article made several unwarranted assumptions, namely that Central Jersey was equidistant between New York and Philadelphia. That is false. Each county is closer to New York except Mercer (if included). Even the northern tip of Ocean is closer to New York. The old article also eliminated any reference to the Raritan River, which I'm sorry is a huge mistake. Like I said, just go to Central Jersey and ask people about the region. You will almost certainly hear about the Raritan River or the Raritan Valley.
If you accept that this article requires sources, then we might as well eliminate the article because your relativism says that any person's word is as good as anyone else's, in spite of the fact that one person has made actual observations with clear examples. My observations are specific. It's not simply a refutation of what someone else has said. I gave and continue to give ChrisRuvolo a chance. His response, along with the response of everyone else, is simply a personal attack rather than a refutation of my analysis. The fact is, people who know a lot about Central Jersey because they live near the region and can point to what people in the region say, have a more credible argument than people who simply come onto this board and attack without any analysis. I looked forward to engaging in a frank discussion. Instead, not one of you has given me any reason to change my mind about the article.
Finally, there's a cold irony to all of what you guys have said. You insist that I use sources, but there have never been any sources in this article! Where are your sources? And it is simply disingenuous to say that because an article has been up a long time, it is "widely accepted." That is only true if the article meets basic standards of writing. The old article clearly did not, and made a lot of misplaced assumptions that would be false even if Mercer and Northern Ocean were included. So I do not understand why all the sudden there's an overreaction when slight but necessary changes are made in the article.
In spite of this, I guess we can continue this conversation in a more meaningful way by asking what each of you want to change in the article. Then, we can start talking about merits among ourselves and come to a consensus. Revolving Bugbear's comment about Monmouth is a good start. Perhaps we can fix the article to note that Monmouth is also part of the "Jersey Shore" (Indeed, people from the shoreline areas like Middletown and Long Branch commonly identify themselves as part of the "Jersey Shore," while my friends from Freehold usually say they're part of "Central Jersey"). For the record, I am open to maybe including part of Mercer back into the article, but I have strong reservations against that. I am absolutely against mentioning Ocean at all, since Ocean is clearly geographically in South Jersey and all Central Jersey counties are north of the center part of the state. Jps57 (talk) 05:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)jps57
You guys needs to understand that sometimes, you simply cannot find any sources for articles on wikipedia.
Sorry, but this point is flat out wrong. Please read WP:VERIFY. Everything on Wikipedia must be verifiable. Contentious points need to be supported with citations. It's official policy and it's largely non-negotiable. If it is unsourceable, then it doesn't belong on Wikipedia.
the article made several unwarranted assumptions, namely that Central Jersey was equidistant between New York and Philadelphia.
Why do you say they are unwarranted? It seems that you do not have any more sources than the original article did, so it can't be the fact that it was unsourced.
Like I said, just go to Central Jersey and ask people about the region.
Like I said, I'm from Central Jersey, and I disagree with you. Also, just asking people is original research. It's not a valid source.
My observations are specific.
They're still observations and thereby original research. So they're still not appropriate to Wikipedia. Without sources, they're meaningless.
(Indeed, people from the shoreline areas like Middletown and Long Branch commonly identify themselves as part of the "Jersey Shore," while my friends from Freehold usually say they're part of "Central Jersey")
What your friends say does not matter. Period. Unless your friends are the keepers of reliable sources, their opinions are completely irrelevant.
For the record, I am open to maybe including part of Mercer back into the article, but I have strong reservations against that. I am absolutely against mentioning Ocean at all, since Ocean is clearly geographically in South Jersey and all Central Jersey counties are north of the center part of the state.
Wikipedia is an open and public project, so you don't actually get to dictate what is and is not included in the article. The community does.
If you accept that this article requires sources, then we might as well eliminate the article because your relativism says that any person's word is as good as anyone else's, in spite of the fact that one person has made actual observations with clear examples.
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. It's about reliable sources. There is no relativism here. You are not a reliable source. Chris is not a reliable source. I am not a reliable source. But there are reliable sources out there, and once we find them, they will go in the article and define its content. But your personal experience will not.
So I do not understand why all the sudden there's an overreaction when slight but necessary changes are made in the article.
It has nothing to do with you, so don't take it personally. You simply attracted attention to the issue. There need to be sources in this article, no matter which opinion is expressed. Yours included.
It should be clear that Central Jersey (as Alansohn pointed out) is not a clearly-defined region. Clearly, more than one definition should be included because there is more than one widely-accepted definition. As a matter of fact, as a resident of Central Jersey for many years, I would say there is no clear definition of Central Jersey and that different people -- from North, South, and even Central Jersey -- have many different opinions of what comprises it. Yours, Jps57, is not tantamount to all others. A discussion of these multiple definitions within the article is clearly necessary. It also needs to be sourced. - Revolving Bugbear 13:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Here are a few sources:
The Monmouth County Polling Institute includes inter alia the following urban and suburban areas in Central Jersey: Red Bank, Princeton, New Brunswick, Somerville, Metuchen, Flemington, Toms River, Point Pleasant, Lambertville. [1] (p. 2)
Daniel Goldfischer, NJ travel writer, includes Princeton and the Jersey Shore area in his book "Ride Guide: Central Jersey" [2]
The American Society of Civil Engineers defines Central Jersey as "Hunterdon, Mercer, Middlesex, Monmouth, Ocean and Somerset Counties, and that portion of Burlington County north of Spur Route 528 and east of US Route 206" [3]
This article is definitely sourceable. - Revolving Bugbear 13:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey Revolving Bugbear,
Thanks for your research. Unfortunately, I do not consider the first and third sources valuable because their main purpose is not to define "Central Jersey," but rather to set parameters for some other endeavor. My alumni association, for example, has a North Jersey section that extends down to Lawrenceville. Central or South Jersey are not even mentioned and I assume South Jersey residents belong to the Philadelphia club. So these designations are purely for convenience and not because they are really correct (Lawrenceville is clearly not in the northern part of the state, the same way the Burlington is clearly in the southern part of the state).
However, your second source is excellent. Thanks for that link. Unfortunately, that source compounds a problem of defining this region. What exactly is the "Jersey Shore?" Theoretically, the Jersey Shore starts at the Perth Amboy area and extends all the way down to Cape May, the very southernmost point of the state. So Jersey Shore is an immense problem because we really do not know where the "Jersey Shore" ends and South Jersey begins. This creates all sorts of problems because you can have posters come in and change the definitions of Central Jersey all the way down to Cape May, with the justification that Central Jersey is linked to the Jersey Shore, which is true from my perspective.
Ultimately, I think your definition of Central Jersey depends on where you live in the state. For example, some of my Bergen County friends thinks that South Jersey starts as soon as you go south of Newark. Some other North Jersey residents thinks Central Jersey ends at Bridgewater because anything south of Bridgewater would allow someone to commute to South Jersey. Some do not think Central Jersey exists at all (the North Jersey captures a lot of the sentiment coming from North Jersey). These are all personal perspectives that do not contain any readily identifiable source.
Following the source, I think it's safe to say Princeton should be included. However, we should start a new discussion on the Jersey Shore and maybe come up with some loose parameters there and go from there. Jps57 (talk) 16:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)jps57
I think you're misunderstanding my purpose. I do not intend to hammer out a definition of Central Jersey. If you look at what I said above, it's clear that to include only a single definition of the region would be wholly inappropriate and grossly violate WP:NPOV. - Revolving Bugbear 16:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

An outside opinion

This article needs a tremendous amount of work. I don't doubt that there is some truth hidden in there somewhere, but there are absolutely no sources to support either position. There is no place called "Central jersey". It has no defined boundaries. Depending on definitions, it may or may not include certain counties. It is not synonymous with the Raritan River Valley, though that could be one of many definitions. Until sources are added, I am far more comfortable with User:ChrisRuvolo's version, which provides a more expansive definition, and doesn't pretend to include a specific, well-define set of counties. I would strongly suggest adding sources to provide an overall definition and to support the inclusion of any particular counties in the area. Statements that someone is "absolutely against mentioning Ocean at all, since Ocean is clearly geographically in South Jersey" are problematic when there is no hard and fast definition of what is North, Central or South Jersey. I would suggest reverting to the User:ChrisRuvolo and request that sources be added. If not added promptly, the article probably ought to be butchered into a stub. Alansohn (talk) 07:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, Revolving Bugbear's amazon find (second source) looks very legitimate. The only questions is how we define the "Jersey Shore." Also, I do not think the article should turn into a stub simply for lack of sources. The North Jersey article has zero sources, and no one is thinking about getting rid of that article. Jps57 (talk) 16:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)jps57
I've contributed to all three articles -- for North, Central and South Jersey -- and as far as I can tell, the only one with a source is South Jersey, a source that actually addresses various definitions of the term as to which counties are included, that was added by yours truly. I do agree that both consistency and Wikipedia policy would dictate stubifying articles for both Central Jersey and North Jersey if sources cannot be found. Please remember that asking people where they live is a great research tool, but does not meet Wikipedia's reliable source policy. Alansohn (talk) 16:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
A source does exist! Look at Revolving Bugbear's second source "Ride Guide : Central Jersey." As for the North Jersey article, I think it is already a stub. Jps57 (talk) 16:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)jps57

Great link

Whoever found the NYT link, thanks! Jps57 (talk) 17:19, 30 December 2007 (UTC)jps57

Some observations

My personal opinion, having lived in Aberdeen Township for over thirty years, is that the state is more complex than a North vs South rubric allows. The state is physically in an S shape, with rural zones in the northwest and south, densely populated urban areas immediately surrounding New York City and Philadelphia, with suburban bedroom communities of these two major cities creeping further and further out into rural zones, plus idiosyncratic areas like Princeton, Trenton, the Pine Barrens, Cape May, Atlantic City, and Jackson to consider. It might be useful to reflect back on the 17th century division of the state into West Jersey and East Jersey. The division of the state into North and South seems archaic, probably based on a biased black and white view of the state as industrial versus agricultural. The N/S division never adequately captured the complexity. A North/South divide seems uninformed and dated in context of development over the past thirty years. It's time to accept something beyond a monochromatic vision of the state. I'd love to diversify the state's image on Wikipedia.

A straight population map of NJ demonstrates how the population clusters around New York and Philadelphia, with clusters in Trenton, Princeton, Atlantic City and the Jersey Shore, and gaps in the northwestern mountains, western Delaware Water Gap, south central Pine Barrens. Delineation by county is not always useful, bringing down average density of places like Camden that have stark differences in density.

The Edison statistical division is clearly Central New Jersey, to my mind. The Newark division is what might be called Northern NJ, if that descriptor holds meaning any longer.

I did some calculations, based on county populations and densities, to give you an idea of "central" from a statistical perspective. The results are all over the map, leading me to believe that simple divisions of the state no longer apply.

  • If New Jersey’s population of 8.4 million is ranked by county and split into three groups of 2.8 million persons each, the central third of the state consists of Monmouth (635,000), Hudson (609,000), Union (523,000), Ocean (511,000), and Camden counties (509,000), plus parts of Middlesex and Passaic counties.
  • If New Jersey’s counties are looked at by population density, Morris County is closest to the 1,134 person per square mile state average. The central third of the state’s total population, ranked by county density, consists of Morris (1,002), Somerset (976), Monmouth (1,303), and Ocean (803) counties, plus parts of Mercer and Gloucester counties.

I've been working on the WikiProject for Erie, Pennsylvania for over a year. It is quite edifying to be able to define a region of the state and make sure everything of import has an article at Wikipedia. I'd gladly join a Central NJ WikiProject if one was formed, as long as my home was included in the final definition of the zone. Why not divide up the state into smaller, more focused WikiProjects? I've written at least thirty articles and uploaded as many images regarding Erie because the task is narrowly defined and clear. --Pat (talk) 20:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Pat, first of all, the East/West Jersey division lasted on 30 years and occurred 300 years ago. It would only make designations worse because there would be no set parameters. The current North/South divide is used only to roughly separate the NYC/Philly zones of influence. East/West would accomplish nothing but confuse the two clear zones in NJ: NYC and Philly.
The Edison division includes Ocean, but that doesn't make Ocean "clearly" in Central Jersey. Plus, you can't explain how Hunterdon County is not part of Central Jersey if your Newark analogy works. Then, you would have to add Somerset County to North Jersey. That is simply a personal observation. You need to come up with actual citations. I understand the difficulty of Ocean County residents to realize this, but Ocean is not part of Central Jersey according to the cite. Perhaps you could amend the South Jersey section and talk about Ocean's unique position, but I don't think that accomplishes anything because Ocean is very much influenced by Philly. Jps57 (talk) 00:21, 17 February 2008 (UTC)jps57
Also Pat, I can't help but understand the frustration of Monmouth/Ocean county residents, but I just think you are OVERREACTING. These designations carry no negative connotations. Your talk about industrial/agricultural is all in your head. Plus, the whole East/West seems to serve the purpose of Monmouth/Ocean County residents by placing them in an orbit that would presumably include NYC, at the expense of say, Hunterdon County residents. This is all so childish, and you just need to get over yourselves. I have lived in South Jersey. I'm currently in North Jersey. I can tell you for a fact that no one in North Jersey feels South Jersey is simply agricultural/undeveloped. That is a myth. Everyone knows that South Jersey is very much like North Jersey because of the influence of a major city. South Jersey also has Atlantic City and much of the huge tourism industry in NJ. If you really want to understand why some dumb North Jersey residents view the South as agricultural, you need to understand that North Jersey is viewed negatively by actual NYC residents. Manhattan, Connecticut and Long Island are all ahead of North Jersey. The accusations hurled by a small number of North Jersey residents is purely to deflect on what they've been hearing everyday from NYC/CT/LI residents. So it's an interesting dynamic, coming from a person who has lived in both regions. I hope this helps. Jps57 (talk) 00:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)jps57
Also, someone could revise the South Jersey article because I'm not sure they're correct about South Jersey being only identified with Philadelphia. Granted, I haven't lived in South Jersey for a long time (I've lived much longer in my current home in North Jersey), but I think the South Jersey article misses key points, notably.
  • South Jersey includes the Shore, which has its own city, Atlantic City, own regional character (Pine Barrens), own economy (tourism as opposed to Philadelphia commuters).
  • South Jersey includes a county part of the NYC region (Ocean). That was not mentioned.
Someone with expertise in South Jersey should revise that article. I will not because I haven't lived there in a long time and things may have changed. These changes should be made by someone very familiar with the area. Jps57 (talk) 00:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)jps57
The Central Jersey Regional Library Cooperative defines itself as serving Monmouth, Mercer, and Ocean Counties. The New York Times identifies Lawrenceville, in Mercer County, as being in Central Jersey. Lakewood and Wall, in Ocean County, are also in Central Jersey, according to the New York Times. The Visiting Nurse Service of Central Jersey serves Middlesex, Monmouth, and Ocean. I'm surrounded with medical practices, banks, school sports divisions, running and biking clubs, etc, etc, that use the name Central Jersey to explain their presence in Monmouth and Ocean. I'm annoyed that there is a question of Central Jersey's existence and think that title should be removed. I also don't believe you have the right to remove my dispute from the article according to Wiki guidelines. --Pat (talk) 02:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Pat, there is no doubt in my mind that Monmouth is DEFINITELY part of Central Jersey. There is no question about that. I only added the Jersey Shore section because Monmouth residents also say they're part of the Jersey Shore, especially in areas like Belmar. If that is what you are worried about, then I wouldn't mind eliminating the designation. I believe the issues with Ocean should be dealt with in the South Jersey article. There is a problem with including counties where only a small portion is considered part of Central Jersey. That is manifestly the case with Ocean County. You cannot draw the line if you only include small sections of certain counties. If you say "northern tip" for Ocean, then what about Point Pleasant or Toms River? If you say I-195, then that essentially eliminates every single major town in Ocean. For that matter, why not include the northern section of Burlington County. Why not Bordentown? See where this is going? Point is, you would have to do a town by town analysis, and that is simply impractical. It also increases the risk of disputes on wikipedia. For example, Mercer is also considered part of South Jersey, but most of the county is part of Central Jersey (Princeton, Lawrenceville, Hopewell etc...), so I think it's correct not to mention them in the South Jersey article.
Also, I think the cite is good because it covers ALL of Central Jersey. For example, entities that service the shore areas are going to define Central Jersey as only Monmouth and Middlesex, while entities that service non-shore areas will define Central as Union, Somerset and Hunterdon only. The beauty of this cite is that it encompasses the entire region, not simply regional variations of it.
As for your concerns about the "Does Central Jersey Exist" section, I will do a cleanup, but I'm not going to remove that because it's really just your word against someone else's word. Some think that Central Jersey does not exist, some think that it manifestly exists. In fact, the section ends saying that many in Central Jersey are adamant that it does exist. Regardless, I'll fix the section, but I don't think there is absolute consensus that Central Jersey manifestly exists, so I think the section deserves to be kept. Jps57 (talk) 05:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)jps57
The line of discussion "if Central Jersey were to be eliminated" implies that Central Jersey is something formal that could be somehow voted out of existence or administratively selected to be eliminated. Central Jersey is simply not in that realm of official discussion. Maybe instead of the Does Central Jersey exist? section, you could mention its lack of official standing in the opening paragraph, noting that residents nurture a number of different concepts of its unofficial boundaries? You could bring up the Jersey Shore issue, that it is considered by some to be part of Central Jersey, yet by others to be its own district. Since Central Jersey is an unofficial zone, lacking borders and jurisdictions prescribed by law, and so many people refer to the zone in their daily lives, its very existence ought not be up for debate here. For what it is, its existence is undeniable. Its constant reference in the NY Times, paired with the opening admission that it has no official standing, ought to suffice to dampen the movement against recognition. BTW, I like the list of counties with the "all or parts of" at the top. I think that deals effectively with the Ocean issue. --Pat (talk) 18:07, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Again Pat, it's your word against someone else's word. Just because the NY Times mentions Central Jersey a lot doesn't mean that Central Jersey manifestly exists. The North/South divide, however, seems stronger. I don't know what more you want me to do. The section is now extremely favorable towards Central Jersey's existence. You are right that the lack of proper borders makes Central Jersey hard to define, which is why some people say we shouldn't even bother.
My point about dividing counties stands. You simply cannot designate Ocean here because only a minuscule part of the county is actually considered Central Jersey. Again, you would have to do a town by town analysis, which is manifestly difficult. You risk writing wars where a person from Brick doesn't like the fact that only the "northern tip" is included. Or, someone from Bordentown can make a strong argument about including Burlington County. See what this does? It is simply not realistic. Plus, the cite includes a broad definition of Central Jersey, and Ocean is not included.
As for the Jersey Shore issue, again I don't think it's helpful to mention it in the beginning because the overwhelming majority of Monmouth is Central Jersey. Jps57 (talk) 19:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)jps57
Okay Pat, because I want to settle this issue once in for all, I have made substantial revisions to the article. I have divided Central Jersey into two regions: Raritan Valley and Northern Jersey Shore. I think this accurately reflects the actual division, as these areas are distinct (pharma of Raritan Valley vs. tourism of Northern Jersey Shore). This allows Ocean to be included, albeit in a very small way. Middlesex is divided between the two. I think this broad reading of Central Jersey will offer something for everyone, and will finally put this issue to rest. Since I'm more familiar with the Raritan Valley's economy, perhaps someone can add to the Northern Jersey Shore's economy section. Jps57 (talk) 23:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)jps57

Biased

This article is biased towards a North Jersey perspective. My impression is that it barely contains its desire to declare that Central Jersey doesn't exist. I see that Ocean County has been removed from the list of counties. The section that begs the question "Does Central Jersey really exist?" and the section with repeated statements that most of Central Jersey is closer to NYC than Philadelphia are both signs that this article is heavily biased towards the opinion that Central Jersey is just the wayward child of North Jersey. To be fair and balanced, this article should not treat Central Jersey as a myth. Whatever was resolved long ago needs to be dredged up and reviewed, because what's here is not fair at all. --Pat (talk) 23:40, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Pat, I came onto this site to revise the original article, which talked a lot about the existence of Central Jersey. I did not have a problem with that discussion because as you have said, the borders of Central Jersey are unclear. I did add a geography section and I don't think anything else is necessary. As for Central Jersey being closer to NYC, that is simply a fact. I'm being objective here. The only exception is Ocean, but that was not included in the cite. Again, you must provide cites to justify your points. Otherwise, you are actually the "biased" party. Jps57 (talk) 00:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)jps57
Pat et. al. I have added an "Economy" section to Central Jersey, providing a brief glimpse of Central Jersey's strong local economy. I hope this is satisfactory for you. Also, if anyone wants to add to the "Economy" section, they should do so because I might be missing industries since I am only familiar with the industries that I listed. Hopefully, we can build a more personal character to this article. However, my stance on Central Jersey counties stands. The cite is pretty airtight. Jps57 (talk) 00:40, 17 February 2008 (UTC)jps57
Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.