Talk:Catherine Zeta-Jones

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[edit] Zeta Jone -OR- Zeta-Jones ???

Why is it that her name hyphenated on this website (and others)? Her first name is Catherine (a grandmother's first name) Her middle name is Zeta (the other grandmother's first name) Her last name (maiden) is Jones Hyphens usually appear when constructing a last name that is a composite of two or more (usually two). That is NOT what is happening with her name. More than anything else... She doesn't use a hyphen when spelling her name. (I can't believe I've wasted a few precious minutes of my life on this.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.167.30 (talk) 14:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Stunning beauty

As if her stunning beauty, sophisticated personality, and intelligence weren't enough, Catherine knows how to choose clothes that make her even more sensational. According to critics, she wore the most elegant and sexiest dress at the 1999 Oscars, and she is always included in entertainment and fashion magazines.

Wow. I think our noses are a bit brown. Seriously, can we chop down the fangirly POV? Mike H 06:33, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)

The POV came from User:Emdec in July, and judging from his few other contributions (to a Welsh town), apparently he seems very proud of the Welsh girl who made it big. But seriously, why did he stop there and not go for Bonnie Tyler, too? She needs a hero!
Okay, bad joke. But anyway, if no one else will try to deal with the POV, I'll do it myself later today. Mike H 14:33, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)

As she is a native Welsh speaker... is it know if she has participated in any Welsh language projects?Drachenfyre

Why in the world do we care about the "dream home" in Wales? Too damn much celebrity filler crapola in these pages about contemporary stars.

What is the definition of "exotic beauty" please? And from just whose (ethnocentric) point of view is that exoticism determined? She does have, to this American anyway, what one might term a vaguely Mediterranean look -- is that what "exotic" is supposed to mean? And do non-Anglos find her "exotic"? My Chinese girlfriend found me "exotic" simply because my head-hair and beard-hair were different colors. Really, just because a page is written in English doesn't mean it should be so blindly ethnocentric.

--From observation, I would say that "exotic beauty" is a catchall phrase for non-"WASP"/blonde-blue looks. Yes, she does have a Mediterraenean look, not uncommon in Wales. (I'll add some historical links later.)I'm "non-Anglo," and she is beautiful, but not exotic, she actually resembles my mother(Irish/Welsh and a few other things) when she was in that age range. Exotic to me is a blue eyed blonde. I agree with you about the Anglocentric bias of that "exotic" statement. JBDay 21:37, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welsh speaker?

Can we have an authoritative reference for the "speaks Welsh fluently" comment? For every reference on the web claiming this, there is another (often in Welsh) contradicting it. Telsa 20:28, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

If no-one comes up with a credible cite, I am going to remove the claim that she does. It's been two months. Telsa 13:49, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hyphenation

Whilst I'm at it, why does Catherine Zeta Jones (no hyphen) redirect to Catherine Zeta-Jones? Surely this is the wrong way around? Telsa 20:28, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, the IMDb has her with hyphen, so that's her current stage name, which ought to be the right title for the article. Perhaps it needs to be made clear when she added the hyphen, as she apparently didn't use it in some of her early credits. On a related note, the phrasing of the article seems to suggest that Zeta was not one of her birth names - anyone know for sure? sjorford (?!) 11:49, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
IMDb is constructed out of user-supplied data, so I am not completely convinced on this one. The local newspaper spells her name without the hyphen, and in this case, I would trust it over IMDb. Telsa 13:49, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, I'm not saying IMDb is perfect (I used to contribute myself :) but they are very specific about using on-screen credits, and as CZJ is a well-known actress I suspect they're at least accurate on that score. SJO mmmmm 10:42, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Catherine was born Catherine Zeta Jones [1] .
Catherine added the hyphen added to her name after she realized there was another Catherine Jones in the acting industry. Zeta is her grandmother's name or maiden name. I don't have sources for these last two statements, rather they are comments I recall made by Catherine herself. I will look for sources for them.

[edit] Whose brothers?

"She was born to Patrick Jones, a Welsh candy factory worker and Dia, a woman who was of Irish Catholic extraction and has two brothers."

Does this mean that Dia was of Irish Catholic extraction and had two brothers; or that Dia was of Irish Catholic extraction and Catherine has two brothers?

Btw, we don't have "candy factories" in Wales. Sweets, perhaps?

Telsa 13:49, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Granma' from planet Zeta?

Some two years ago it was alleged in a big british newspaper that CZJ is in fact a full 10 years older than she admits (i.e. born 1959). What came out of that? Indeed she seems well along elderly Mr. Douglas which suggests she is not a young stupid chick but more mature.

Catherine was born in 1969, as listed in the birth registers of the UK. [2]
Look under 1969, then "J". You will find a Catherine Zeta Jones born in Swansea.
Which paper? Without a cite this is risible. It's still pretty risible anyway. We assert in the article that she was performing as a child. If she was purportedly seven and in fact seventeen, or purportedly thirteen and in fact twenty-three, it is just possible that somone might have noticed the disparity. --Telsa 15:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

If this were true, wouldn't she have said something to Jay Leno, on whose show she has appeared a number of times, about all those jokes about the age difference? "When they go to the movies together, he gets the 65-and-over discount, she gets the 12-and-under." Also "Who's your granddaddy?" She'd have had to say, "Come on, Jay, we're only 15 years apart, not 25! It's not as bad as you think." And, of course, if she were 46 instead of 36, that would only make her figure even more incredible. -- Pacholeknbnj

I was in school with her. I was born in 1969. Aredbeardeddwarf 21:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welsh, Irish, what?

Rather than reverting "is"/"isn't" twice a day, perhaps the debaters of the vexed question of her Irishness could outline their reasons and sources for believing that she is or isn't Welsh, Welsh/Irish, or whatever here and come to some degree of consensus about it?

There seems on Wikipedia generally to be a split between people who believe that nationality/ethnicity is largely based on where you and your parents were born and brought up, and between people who believe that it is based upon where you, your parents, your grandparents, your great-grandparents and so on back until about 1700 were born and brought up, and that one great-grandparent from one place means that you also share that nationality/ethnicity/connection/what-have-you. I wonder if this split is at the root of what is happening here?

All that the article says (completely unsourced) is that her mother was of Irish Catholic "extraction". Perhaps it's just my reading of it, but this is a bit nebulous. In the UK, "of.. extraction" tends to imply a rather more distant connection than "came from there his/herself". Is this the case in other English-speaking countries? Is this one unsourced claim the basis of this entire ponderous series of reverts lumbering on just under the 3RR rule? Perhaps if we could find out what "of Irish Catholic extraction" means in the first place, we could get a bit closer? C'mon, people. Sources please? (Mind, I am still waiting for the source for the claim of her fluent Welsh. In the meantime, I note that she has now acquired French and Spanish too...)

--Telsa 15:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

whether her mother is or isn't Irish is irrelevent, the nationality goes in the header, not ethnic makeup. Arniep 16:01, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
There's not much of a debate that her mother is Irish and her father Welsh. The point is Zeta-Jones was born, raised, etc. in Wales and not in Ireland. Nationality in header, ethnicity down unde "early life". Vulturell 18:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, if there is not much of a debate, why have there been another four "is/isn't" reversions since I asked that? Can we keep WP:RS and WP:V in mind and have even one reliable source backing either claim?

And if her mother is Irish, why aren't we just saying that instead of this "of Irish extraction" phrasing?

--Telsa 09:29, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think you understand. No one here is debating as to whether her mother is Irish or not. We - i.e. the people on both ends of the reverting - agree to that. The point is Cypriot Stud is putting it (i.e. her ethnic background) in the first parargraph, while it should really only under "Early Life" or whichever appropriate section. Zeta-Jones is Welsh by nationality, and the opening sentence includes nationality only, not ethnic make-up. Vulturell 17:58, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

After Telsa told me about this on IRC, I attempted to make a compromise. Instead of "Welsh actress", I wrote "actress from Wales", which does state her nationality, but unambigously. I also added the origin in the introduction, but clearly as origin, again unambigouosly. I hope this will help. In a number of biographic articles on Wikipedia, ethnic background is in the introduction, so I don't see why that wouldn't be the case here.

By the way, Telsa tried to ask what "of Irish extraction" actually means, not to ask whether it is disputed. Nikola 09:28, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

catherine parents are... david jones.. & pat fair.. they were both born in wales.. PAT is of irish decent, on her mum`s side, her father`s parents were born in wales, they were williams & fair —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.12.91.112 (talk • contribs) 10:06, 10 January 2006 .

[edit] US

Does she have US citizenship. if yes she is a Welsh-American, if not she isn't, SqueakBox 15:44, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

To put in she is of Welsh and Irish origin doesn't help at all. She grew up in Wales and has no special connection or personal history with Ireland, SqueakBox 17:24, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Technically she'd be Anglo-American if she had dual citizenship (as Anglo is the abbreviation for British), but if referring to her original nationality then she could be down as either Welsh or British. The problem is whether you view 'original nationality', citizenship, or possible 'present nationality' as the primary indicator of a person. Nick Kerr 09:54, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if the UK officially breaks down within the Kingdom as "British citizen" and "Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish citizen," but if a foreigner marries an American citizen with the intention of living even part-time in America, that makes the person an American citizen, even without the naturalization process or giving up previous citizenship. -- Pacholeknbnj
The UK does not sub-divide citizenship between the Home Nations, so there are only British citizens within England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland (in this case, however, a person may also be an Irish Citizen if desired). There are other citizenships within British nationality, but these would not apply in this case. However, US citizenship is not conferred without naturalisation. Similarly, 'part-time residency', unless referring to permanent residency ('right to abode'), does not confer US nationality, even if the spouse is a US Citizen. In order to become a US Citizen through marriage a person must be a permanent resident of the United States and have lived (while married) in the US for 3 years. This does not, however, make the person a US Citizen and ordinary naturalisation requirements still apply. Thus, if Ms Zeta-Jones maintains her permanent residency in the UK (defined by UK law) she would not be eligible for US citizenship, similarly, if she is a US resident for three years she is not automatically a citizen, and would have to apply for such a status through naturalisation. See United States citizenship. Nick Kerr 13:12, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
I should also point out that looking at her biography section on her website and reading quite a few quotes on IMDb she appears to be rather pro-Welsh, self-reference. While both her children were born in the US (making them British and US citizens), she does not appear to have taken US citizenship and, based on her pro-Welsh stance might find this problematic, as the US Oath of Allegiance is somewhat specific about renouncing foreign citizenship, and while she could retain her British citizenship (as the UK does not recognise the renounciation under the OoA) it would be somewhat 'morally flexible' to be very pro-Wales and then renounce attachment to it. Nick Kerr 13:35, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

-Pacholeknbnj is on crack. you dont become a u.s. citizen automatically. you have to apply. you even have to take a test. dont try to act like an expert when youre not.

[edit] Buggered it up

I tried to delete 'Artemis Fowl' from her 2007 filmography - there is no real evidence this film even exists - and I've buggered it up a bit. Could someone please fix it? Thanks, and sorry. TheDingbat 00:26, 12 October 2006 (UTC) Catherin-Zeta-Jones might play Lily Munster in the upcoming comedy film The Munsters

[edit] Birthplace

The article gives it as both Swansea and Treboeth, so which is it to be? - Dudesleeper 16:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Office

Can someone tell me why my paragraph about her name being used in the American version of "The Office" was deleted?

-->

[edit] Dumbarton House - school or brothel

Regarding the recent edit by someone at 75.69.179.68:

Changed from:

Zeta-Jones attended the moderately-priced brothel, Dumbarton House in Swansea where she was apparently an average prostitute.

To:

Zeta-Jones attended Dumbarton House School in Swansea.

Does anyone have thoughts on that? A bit of a sharp turn I would suggest.

As for 75.69.179.68, the user has only one contribution. The network data is below.

OrgName: Comcast Cable Communications Holdings, Inc OrgID: CCCH-3 Address: 1800 Bishops Gate Blvd City: Mt Laurel StateProv: NJ PostalCode: 08054 Country: US

>> Checked : This is SCHOOL and the brothel stuff was lame —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.15.225.50 (talk) 04:09, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


NetRange: 75.64.0.0 - 75.75.191.255 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.15.225.50 (talk) 03:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greek Origin Inaccurate

The statement that her father's mother is of "north Greek" origin is traceable to a CNN transcript of the Larry King Live show and been widely quoted. However listening to an audio of the interview she actually says "of not Greek origin". Listen to it at http://infoworld.koreanblog.com/entry/Everyones-Sweetheart-Catherine-Zeta-Jones-Oct-2001 and decide for yourself.156.63.68.215 17:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)iwerdhon

I did not feel as if I should change the article but merely call attention to my refutation on the discussion page. If you want to leave misinformation in the article I guess you can. After all this is wikipedia. By the way, the Greeks already have enough famous people - Idon't see why you feel the need to claim people aren't Greek. Listen to the above link about the Larry King interview. 66.213.29.2 13:32, 3 November 2007 (UTC)iwerdhon

Nobody is trying to claim people. We just add info which are based on sources and I think an interview from CNN is more reliable than the same interview from another source, which seems rebuilt, with an incoherent answer with strange syntax - Sthenel 15:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Here is the transcript from the site I suggested: ZETA-JONES: Yes. Zeta is my grandmother’s name, who is of not Greek origin. But Zeta is a Greek name. And everyone thinks that I was, just put Zeta in to spice up Catherine Jones. And that’s completely untrue. And while on the subject of syntax, why would you say "but" (implying a contradiction?) Wouldn't you say "And" or "Because". The CNN transcript is a "rush transcript which may contain errors" according to CNN. I have contacted them twice with no response. Sorry, you are just plain incorrect and quoting a mis-heard transcript doesn't justify it.66.213.29.2 19:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)iwerdhon (a Welshman)

CNN which gives the original interview is not reliable but the web site which rewords this particular answer is...You must be kidding... This is the question and the answer according to your source:
KING: “Zayde” is a Jewish grandfather. You’re married to a Jewish guy.
ZETA-JONES: Yes. Zeta is my grandmother’s name, who is of not Greek origin. But Zeta is a Greek name. And everyone thinks that I was, just put Zeta in to spice up Catherine Jones. And that’s completely untrue.
So, if someone had asked me indirectly if my name is jewish, I wouldn't answer that my grandmother is not Greek. Additionally I wouldn't say that "I put Zeta to spice up Catherine Jones and that's completely untrue... What exactly is untrue? What an incoherent and strange answer is this...The original answer is that provided by CNN:
KING: Because "zayde" is a Jewish grandfather. You're married to a Jewish guy.
ZETA-JONES: Yes. Zeta is my grandmother's name, who is of north Greek origin. But Zeta is a Greek name. And everyone thinks that I just put Zeta in to spice up Catherine Jones. And that's completely untrue.
So I'm not sure if you or someone else who tries hard to prove the opposite (as you said you contacted CNN) didn't reword her answer in this web site, which doesn't make any sense at all. And please don't call me "Hellenic friend" to prove that I'm biased and I'm crazy with making everyone Greek. This is not me but someone else... That's all. - Sthenel 21:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I removed the "Hellenic friend". Why is the CNN transcript the only place this is shown and quoted from? A little research would show that "Zeta" is her grandmother's first name, not a surname. Furthermore if you investigate you will discover that it was the name of a ship on which her great-grandfather sailed.156.63.68.237 18:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)Iwerdhon

One of the above posters is correct - in the interview that aired on CNN, Zeta-Jones stated that her grandmother is "not" Greek- that was the point of her statement ("Zeta is my grandmother’s name, who is of not Greek origin. But Zeta is a Greek name"). See also the interview below, where she states that her family can not trace her ancestry further than Irish and Welsh: [3]:
What is your family's background, because you look quite convincingly Latina in the film. My mother's Irish and my father's Welsh. But, we've tried to track our family back, and we're blocked. We're at a crossroads down there after my great-great-grandfather, and no one seems to know anything. So, I don't know. All Hallow's Wraith 06:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

In a personal correspondence with a woman related to Catherine Zeta Jones she informed me that CZJ's maternal grandfather was Welsh (William Fair) and that the maternal grandmother was Irish (Catherine O'Callaghan)156.63.68.216 17:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)Iwerdhon


Personal correspondence far outweighs the validity of a transcript from CNN, naturally. - Dudesleeper Talk 18:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't know about personal correspondence, but she clearly stated that her grandmother was "of not Greek origin, But Zeta is a Greek name". I don't see the point of spreading another pointless mistake, especially considering this interview - [4] - where she says she can't trace her ancestry farther back than Welsh and Irish. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 19:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey Dudesleeper, did you listen to the interview? It's at http://infoworld.koreanblog.com/entry/Everyones-Sweetheart-Catherine-Zeta-Jones-Oct-2001 The CNN transcript is just plain incorrect. Do you have any other source to back up the CNN transcript? 66.213.29.2 (talk) 14:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)iwerdhon

[edit] Disambiguation

Obviously there's a long-term edit war here over her ethnicity. I take no sides; I ask only that you not link to disambiguation pages like Welsh. Wales, Welsh people, Welsh language, etc. are articles, but Welsh is not. Thanks. Ntsimp (talk) 23:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)