Talk:Castilian Spanish

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[edit] Informal name?

Sorry, but I don't think the English phrase 'Castilian Spanish' is informal. Rothorpe 13:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

It may be widespread, but it's quite misleading. --Jotamar 13:53, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Only if you translate it word-by-word into Spanish. The name is perfectly correct in English language (cfr. Andalusian Spanish). Regards, --Asteriontalk 18:49, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

The 2 words are synonyms. It's just the same as saying Spanish Spanish. Please correct this. Also, I don't understand what is meant by "widespread". Ask anyone who speaks Castilian, natively such as myself and you will be told that Castellano is Español and vice versa. I would think Iberian Spanish is more proper. -- Ateo 18:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

No, as Asterion says, you must avoid translating it back into castellano. We are talking about the English phrase, and it happens that this is the one that has become established. 'Iberian Spanish' would be better, certainly, but not too many people will be typing it in the box. Rothorpe 20:05, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree. How would you translate the name of the dialect of English people speak in England? Inglés Ingleso, right? That just translates to English English. Thus it's better to translate it as Inglés Británico, just like Iberian Spanish. Taric25 07:31, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Inglés ingleso? LOL! FilipeS (talk) 14:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, English English as well as British English are both used. But just as previously stated, in the English language, "Castilian" is used to denote a particular dialect spoken in Spain. It is not synonymous with "Spanish" in most cases. In the Spanish language, castellano and español are synonymous, but this is an English language article. Kman543210 (talk) 01:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal

I disagree with the merge proposal. The article refers to the Spanish dialect (one of many), not about one of the names given to the Spanish language as a whole. It would also be a very POV thing to do, i.e. trying to pass off the Castilian Spanish dialect as equivalent to Standard Spanish. --Asteriontalk 08:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

"Castilian" can be two things: one of the names of the Spanish language, or one of the dialects of Spanish. The former can be discussed at Names given to the Spanish language, and the latter can be discussed at Spanish dialects and varieties. I see no need for a new article, which to me is what stinks a tad of POV-pushing (i.e. trying to draw an artificial line between European and American Spanish). FilipeS 00:31, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I too disagree. It is not one of the names: it is a variety. At the end, the article links to Andalusian Spanish and Canarian Spanish and there are articles on Mexican Spanish and Chilean Spanish. One day there may be Peruvian Spanish, Costa Rican Spanish... Rothorpe 14:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
It's both a variety of Spanish and an alternative name of the language, as far as I know. FilipeS 02:31, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
More to the point of why the article is necessary. Regards, Asteriontalk 08:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Maybe, except the current intro leaves a lot to be desired:

Castilian Spanish refers to some dialects of the Spanish language as spoken in Spain, also known as Spanish Spanish or Spanish from Spain. Although castellano (Castilian) often refers to the language as a whole, this is considered by some a misnomer deriving from Spain's medieval history[dubious – discuss].

First, it gives the wrong impression that "Castilian" can only designate a dialect of Spanish. Not true; it's also the name of the language itself.
Second, it gives the wrong impression that "Castilian" is a well-defined and unique dialect of Spanish, namely the one spoken in Spain. But there are many dialects of Spanish spoken in Spain. FilipeS 13:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I too disagree with the merger. I propose the following difference in focus from one article to the other: we could use Castilian Spanish for the phonological, lexical and all types of particularities of this particular Spanish accent/dialect, from a linguistic point of view, while we leave this article (Names given...) to discuss from a sociological or sociolinguistic PoV the way speakers choose to call their language.
By the way, I must remind you that, no matter if it's academically "correct" or not, many people in several Southern American countries calls their language castellano, so Wikipedia might as well just explain and reflect this; and on the other hand, from a linguistic PoV there's not a single version of Spanish spoken in Peninsular Spain, but several very distinct accents with español de Castilla being just one of them. So you cannot say there's a single accent in Spain; you can check that out at the Spanish Wikipedia, where a whole category exists for Peninsular Spanish accents (es:Categoría:Dialectos del castellano en España).
On the other hand, it you check out the Interwikis, you can see Castilian Spanish is linked to es:Dialecto_castellano_septentrional (one of the many Peninsular Spanish accents, with the article focusing in phonological differences) while Names given to the Spanish language links to es:Polémica en torno a español o castellano (with the article stating that this polemic is a political and not an academic issue, thus better suited for a sociological focus), so the distinction is pretty clear. And I think we should keep it.
Do you agree with my proposal? I think it's better to clear this out and stop arguing about it. Thank you for your attention, Cvalda (talk) 16:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Well said, Cvalda. And it's a great map! Rothorpe (talk) 19:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I suppose it's alright to keep the articles separate, if Castilian Spanish remains an article about the Castilian and the Spanish dialects of Spanish, while Names given to the Spanish language can be a page of the same kind as Names for the Dutch language. FilipeS (talk) 15:19, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

As for the Castilian Spanish article, I agree with you. Perhaps we should bring in there some content from Wikipedia in Spanish. As for Names given to the Spanish language, I think it should stay more or less as it is, explaining why both names are used in Spanish and maybe adding some information of the common usage in English (about which I can't really tell being from and living in Europe). If it looks too long or confusing to you, changes are welcome :). Greetings, Cvalda (talk) 15:50, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Add More Content

I would like to add additional information to this article in regards to some of the differences in word usage and accent in Castilian Spanish vs. Latin American Spanish (for example, why Latin America uses seseo). I am new to Wikipedia, so I just wanted to make sure there wasn't another article out there that already does this and that no one would object. I think this is a good article and could be more useful for someone who may be interested in the differences if it had a little more content. Kman543210 (talk) 02:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, any cooperation is welcome, but I guess you could check out Spanish dialects and varieties for that. That article is linked from this one. Thanks for your attention, and welcome to Wikipedia! Cvalda (talk) 13:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)