Talk:Carol (music)

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[edit] Non English and Non Western Carols

I know there are non-English Carols and so the article could benefit from a knowledgeble contributor in that area to revise the English/British bias and maybe to add something about other language carols. And are there non-Christian carols? Laying aside for the moment the "pagan" or "folk" elements of the ostensibly Christian carols, are there any songs linked with other faiths that could properly be described as carols? If so then I'd like to learn about them. If not then the article could be revised to define a carol as form of song linked with Christianity, rather than simply with "religion". I am interested in clarity and more information. MrSeanBrook 04:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the word

"The word carol is derived from the Old French word carole, a circle dance ..."

What is the root of the word? Is it 'car'? What does it (the root) mean? Is there any connection to the English word 'car'?

The English spelling is a mess: 'cirkle' is spellt with 'c' pronounced as 's'; 'curve' is spellt with 'c' but pronounced as 'k' .... and so forth. Let's write these words phonetically: 'kirkle' and 'kurve'.

Make a small experiment now: say these words aloud and listen to the sounds you make. You'll find, the second sound doesn't have an English phonetic: it is an 'ő' sound. Let's write the words phonetically again: 'kőrkle and kőrve. Since the English does not pronounce the trailing 'e' it can be dropped: kőrkl and kőrv. Now the root of the words is clear: kőr. But what does it mean? Both of these words are to do with a cirkle. Indeed, 'kőr' means cirkle.

Now it is that vowels change easily: ker, kar, kur, kir have the same meaning. Therefore 'carol' -> 'karol' -> 'körol' -> köröl is the same. Another experiment: say aloud 'k' and 'g'. Feel how you are changing the position of the very back of your tongue. These two sounds are very-very close to each-other. Indeed, they used to be interchangable. Some long time ago, at the down of speach there was no difference. Therefore the 'k' can be changed to 'g': ger, gar, gur, gir and still, the words are to do with a 'cirkle'.

Word-roots, like trees grow branches: something is added to the root and the meaning is extended. All these words are part of a large word-tree. Not all of them found their way into Latin, French, English, German and others. Some examples for Latin -> English and French are above. In German 'kirche' means church and 'garten' -> 'garden' have the same root too.

So how do we know the origin of the root-word. Easy: which language has the largest word-tree around it? That is the Hungarian. The word 'curve' in Hungarian is two words: 'kör iv' written as one word 'köriv' and it means the same as the English version. Is there any connection to the English word 'car'? In Hungarian 'gör' is a root of words to do with 'rolling'. It is now clear that 'gör' -> 'gar' -> 'car' mean the same. Hungarian has more vowels than English. The sound 'é' stands for the sound in 'gear'. Phonetically: 'gér' and it should be obvious now that the root is the same 'kōr', 'ker', 'kér' -> 'gōr', 'ger', 'gér'. Indeed, in the gear-box there are gears and they are circular.

'Karol' also means 'folding arms' as well as putting one's arm around someone's shoulder. Many dances use this element. Finally, in Hungarian 'karol' also means 'cuddle' thus the carol is not just a circular dance where the dancers 'karol' each other but the tradition holds the village, the community together by passing the culture to the younger generation via those songs and dances. Bill, 2007-Dec-11 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.95.112.212 (talk) 01:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)