Talk:Carmen Miranda
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She is really the Brazilian icon, but the strangestest thing of all is that she hadn't Brazilian nationality. Her only nationality was Portuguese. "disseram que voltei americanizada" means literally "they said I came back Americanized". "they said I became Americanized" in Portuguese is "disseram que me tornei americanizada." or "disseram que fiquei americanizada." -Pedro 21:42, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Controversial photograph
«I beleive there was a promotional photograph, taken with one of her co-stars, which caused a great amount of controvercy and damaged Ms. Miranda's career. Does anyone else recall hearing about this? Niloc.
- "She was captured in photo while dancing with Caeser Romero wearing no underwear. Those closest to her did not perceive this as being "naughty" but simply that it gave her greater freedom of movement for her dance routines." from http://www.bombshells.com/gallery/miranda/miranda_facts.php Meichigo (talk) 04:51, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Full stop?
I don't quite understand Full stop as used in the Carmen_Miranda#Life_and_career section.
in 1945 was the highest-paid woman in the United States full stop, earning more than $200,000 that year, according to IRS records.
Maybe an artifact from some voice dictation software? Lent 13:46, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 10 million copies?
Miranda made a total of 14 Hollywood films between 1940 and 1953. As a singer, she sold more than 10 million copies worldwide [citation needed] I am aware that citation is needed for that information, but could there be some clarifaction as to 10 million copies of what, exactly? Ninetigerr 20:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)ninetigerr
[edit] English
I've heard that after spending so much time in the US, Carmen Miranda learned to speak perfect, fluent English without an accent. However, in interviews, performances, and other public appearances, she was encouraged to speak broken, heavily accented English in order to promote her "exotic" "foreign" appearance.
[edit] Citizenship/Nationality
FYI, this was left on my talk page by an anon, but it belongs to reverts on this article, so here it is...--Dali-Llama 00:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
You keep reverting the "clarify" tag with no reason.
The answer to your comments:
“That source doesn't mention anything different from the article.” Yes it does. In those days naturalization would mean she would have lost her Portuguese nationality. She would be Brazilian by choice and no longer Portuguese.
“Sorry-- that source is ambiguous. They could've meant she wasn't born in Brazil. It's not specific enough to rule out or affirm naturalization.”
If all you need is a reliable source not ambiguous to rule out naturalization you have one here:
««While always publicly identifying herself as “Brazilian”, throughout her life she carried a Portuguese passport and lived as a Latina immigrant in Beverly Hills, California.»»
A. M.. Latina Legacies: Identity Biography, and Community. Oxford University Press US. (Pg194)
You can call her Brazilian on the other parts of the text, because she identified herself as such, but not where it makes ambiguous about her nationality or implies she had Brazilian nationality when she didn't. Like her real name was not Carmen, but Maria do Carmo, her real nationality was not Brazilian. This is supposed to be a Encyclopedia not a nationality tug of war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.181.114.145 (talk) 23:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- "Carrying a Portuguese passport" does not exclude her from carrying a Brazilian passport. The status of dual citizenship has long been recognized by Portugal and de facto in Brazil (though de jure only since 1994). You have yet to present a source which clearly states she was not a Brazilian citizen, when her IMDb database clearly states she was a naturalized Brazilian citizen. IMDb is not the end-all, be-all source, so I'd be willing to accept your tag if you could provide a source which clearly states that she did not have Brazilian citizenship (regardless of her Portuguese passport).--Dali-Llama 00:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Naturalization is different from having the right to more than one nationality for having parents of other nationalities. The law changed in 1981. Do not forget there had been two world wars and a dictatorship,
The people who lost the Portuguese nationality for having naturalized, can only after 1981 get it back. So no, there was not a chance she was naturalized Brazilian, volunteer acquisition of another nationality caused loss of the Portuguese one, in those days.
««Lei da Nacionalidade Lei n.o 37/81 de 3 de Outubro
Artigo 31.o (Aquisição voluntária anterior de nacionalidade estrangeira)
Os que, nos termos da Lei n.o 2098, de 29 de Julho de 1959, e legislação precedente, perderam a nacionalidade portuguesa por efeito da aquisição voluntária de nacionalidade estrangeira podem adquiri-la mediante declaração, sendo capazes.»»
- We can discuss legal arguments about historical de facto and de jure dual citizenship legislation forever (which is why I drew the distinction in saying that the dual citizenship status is de facto recognized, while not necessarily de jure). At the most the conclusion would be that her dual citizenship was illegal according to one country's law (or both). Bottom line is, until you (or I, for that matter, since I've been looking too) find a source which directly states she was never naturalized a Brazilian citizen, then the existing source prevails. As it's quite clear about the subject, the tag is not appropriate in this context.--Dali-Llama 19:20, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
The conclusion would be that her dual citizenship would be illegal according to the laws of both countries, Brazil did not accept dual citizenship of naturalized citizen either. You know that IMDb is not a good source to base the assumption that she was naturalized. Not even her official site says a word about it which would be very strange if they ignored the fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.181.17.87 (talk) 01:03, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
- Like I said, this would affect her de jure legal status, not necessarily de facto. Until we have a source otherwise, the unclear tag remains out.--Dali-Llama 15:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] A little knowledge is a dangerous thing
I'd like to see the death certificate that shows that a 46-year-old woman who as far as I can tell was not over 20 weeks pregnant at the moment of her death and who had not delivered a child within three hours of her death (and who in fact died childless) died of pre-eclampsia. It's impossible. "Toxemia" doesn't always mean pre-eclampsia, especially on older death certificates - in fact, it was used more often than not to mean septicemia or blood poisoning. BUT: every single reference I can find gives her cause of death as a heart attack, and her death certificate isn't online anywhere I can see. (Plus, "heart failure" doesn't mean a heart attack: it's a specific disease, not a catch-all) So I've deleted the pregnancy part and ask that it not be re-added until someone posts a copy of her death certificate showing the word "pregnancy" (not the word "toxemia") on it. --NellieBly (talk) 06:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
