Talk:Carlton Football Club

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To-do list for Carlton Football Club: edit · history · watch · refresh
  • Reference all unreferenced material, including links to Grand Final teams, awards winners, etc. Some article paragraphs still contain information that needs to be referenced or removed as well.
  • Expand all initialled names to full names.

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[edit] The End of Carlton?

Well I've just come out of a coma after learning of Denis Pagan's sacking a week ago. A dreadful mistake in my view because I felt he needed more time and quality draft picks. Now he's gone, I am taking this to mean that Carlton may never win another premiership because if Denis can't do the job, then no-one can. So I wonder if its worth writing about the reasons for this belief in the main article?Jaker5 11:33, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


All that should be said is that Denis Pagan was sacked halfway through the 2007 season after leading Carlton through the darkest period in Carlton's history. The suggestion that Carlton will never win another premiership because Denis Pagan was sacked is a biased, and may I say ridiculous comment, with no basis in fact. Gandaal 11:39, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


I appreciate your comments that it is a "ridiculous comment", but to me it sounds like someone who has a very limited understanding of what it takes to produce an AFL premiership team in the current climate (as a national competition with the limitations of draft picks and salary caps). Building a premiership team involves a cycle of recruiting quality players combined with the guidance of a quality coach and a sound stable administration from the president down. As the team develops "it gels" [Pagan's famous words] together to become a strength and gains momentum towards a premiership. It might or might not win a premiership as it contests the finals during the team's lifespan. The point to emphasise is that the club must get sufficient numbers of quality players quickly. At the moment, Carlton is getting one or two per year via the draft. This is not what used to happen. Let's look at history. In the 1960s George Harris and Newton Chandler(then president and talent scout respectively) grabbed Barassi, Jesaulenko, Crosswell, Walls, Southby, McKay, Quirk, Hall, et al, and built premiership teams that won flags in '68, '70 and '72. Then the generation moved onto to the late '70s where Doull, Johnston, Sheldon, Harmes, Marcou, Fitzpatrick, et al, formed the basis of the '79, '81, '82 premiership teams. Then under John Elliot the '80s saw Rys-Jones, Williams, Kernahan, Bradley, Dorotich, Motley (later involved in a tragic accident) recruited to form the premiership teams of '87 and '95. Since then...what??? If one looks at the current crop of senior players at Carlton, we have Stevens, Scotland, Lappin, Fevola, Houlihan, Bannister, Whitnall, Wiggins, Saddington, Kouta(just retired) who are already in their mid-to-late twenties, and soon they will have passed their best football while the younger ones who are approaching the mid-twenties have not yet established themselves as commanding players. Carlton is not going to win a premiership with this lot! Given the restrictions of the draft, the salary cap, and the rise of powerful interstate clubs like West Coast, Brisbane, Sydney, the Adelaides, that have won 8 of the last 10 flags, it is highly unlikely Carlton will be able to recruit the quality players in the numbers needed to win another flag. As the current generation of players pass, who will replace them? Another mob of the same quality!! Carlton has become the latter-day Footscray or StKilda (one mere premiership to boot). Sorry but that is the way it is.
As for Pagan, he had a history of success with younger players (9 consecutive grand finals with the Kangaroos Under 19s), then he won a flag with the Essendon reserves, then he went to North Melbourne and won the first of two flags in his third year there. But when he went to Carlton...what happened? Simple...his ability had not translated into success at Carlton because of the poor quality of the team he had to coach. After winning its first wooden spoon in 2002, it was a team completely depleted of talent or ability and ageing players. And combined with draft pick deprivals, Pagan couldn't do anything with the club. I am not biased, and I am justified in saying, at least with this mob, that if he can't do it, no-one can.
Sure, Ratten's got the job now, and he's one of my favourites and good luck to him, but boy he's gonna fuck his whole coaching career up in just two years coaching "skunks" [a description of the current Carlton players by Gary Lyons in a recent newspaper article]!! And Richard Pratt? Well he is a most welcome Messiah...but money doesn't buy AFL success anymore. Just watch...you'll see...and we've just been "belted" by the Kangaroos by 82 points. From the hand that was there personally at the "G" in the glory years of '68, '70, '72', '79, '81, and '82.Jaker5 14:11, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not NPOV

I have changed afew things such as the bit about the draft which was quite obviously POV but htere are still things like the 1970 Grand Final which need a major re-write it they are to stay in.Squall1991 21:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] More not NPOV

I have deleted the below because it is not NPOV

[edit] AFL Team of the Century: 'The Fortunate Five'

Five former Carlton players qualified for a place in the AFL Team of the Century. They were the 'Fortunate Five', each one a true champion as reflected by their nomination as a selection in the greatest team of the twentieth century. Whether they were in the air rucking all day and influencing the game like John 'Big Nick' Nicholls, or in the thick of things in the centre with an explosive handball from Greg 'Diesel' Williams, or kicking goals or flying high in a graceful manner like this typical mark by Alex 'Jezza' Jesaulenko , or valiantly defending against high quality opposition like Bruce 'The Flying Doormat' Doull or Stephen 'SOS' (Son of Serge) Silvagni, they were there...week after week...game after game...it went on for years. It is no surprise that every member of this group was instrumental in guiding Carlton towards victory in the most important game of the football year...the Grand Final to win the premiership. In the 1972 premiership, Jesaulenko and Nicholls kicked 7 and 6 goals respectively. In the 1981 premiership, Doull won the Norm Smith Medal for a sensational game. In the 1995 premiership, Silvagni kept Geelong great Gary Ablett goaless while Williams won the Norm Smith Medal for a sensational performance as the best player in that game.

[edit] References

The article lacked any references whatsoever. I've gone through and referenced as much as I could dig up. I think we might have to consider either squishing some of those tables into two columns like the GF teams as well. The page is quite long and untidy.Orichalcon 18:26, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Good work on the refs. About bringing the tables together, how about something like the Wild West Coast's great "honour board", say a president, coach, captain, etc, with small fonts? Or would it be too big a job? See the following edit mode: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=West_Coast_Eagles&action=edit&section=10
In the meantime I'll get the refs for the prem' teams. They come fom the "Courage Book of Grand Finals" circa 1972, and another grand final book.Jaker5 12:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Honour board might be a tad tricky given that the blues have 110 years of history to document, where the eagles only have 20. However, it would work better than the current format having them all spread out. I can start working on a single table tonight. Orichalcon 12:58, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Great stuff on the Honour Board. When I first saw it I thought "Yikes! It's here already!"Jaker5 14:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. So damn much work to be done still though. Gotta make pages for all those rednames (I've filled in 1962-2007 so far.) Still trying to find a source for the presidents so I can get their full names too.Orichalcon 18:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Jaker, I notice you readded the Notable identities list. You'll have to go through and reference every single name on that list, otherwise it's speculation/Original Research which isn't welcome on wikipedia. I'll leave it there for now. However, I'm unwilling to waste time looking up reference for something that unimportant. Orichalcon 03:56, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I thought it was inadvertently deleted! I'll look into it and see what can be done. Some will be difficult such as H.B.Higgins because he was there in 1904, but we'll see what comes up in the next few weeks. Many of these identities show up at games, or they feature in newspaper articles, or it was heard on the radio. So it is going to be difficult to "prove" the case. However it should be clearly understood that Carlton is a powerful and prestigious football club, and there are many more notable - famous and infamous - Australians who have been at Carlton, such as surgeons, justices, academics, businessmen, and underworld figures such as the Moran family (who used the 1982 premiership flag to drap Mark's coffin at his funeral), and controversial figures such as Dr Geoff Edelston, famous for his fantastic lifestyle!!!  :-) Jaker5 14:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Systematic Bias

This page has a systematic bias and is full of outright propaganda as far as I am concerned (note fortunate five) plus it is ridiculously long. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.240.215.56 (talk) 09:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC).

there is no bias information in the Carlton Article, no more than any of the other clubs articles.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.139.35.10 (talk) 15:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC).
I would agree. I went through and edited most of the bias words out of the write-up as I could find it. I am a Carlton supporter, but I tried to make sure the article was as neutral as possible, including the part where we were fined and the reasoning. If you think you can expand upon it better, please feel free to. Orichalcon 10:00, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Bias? Huh? Who do you barrack for son? Fortunate five? Well it's a fact...each one got into the AFL team of the century - one quarter of that team, so what's biased about being fortunate? Propaganda? Well what is written is true and factual, the good and bad things about the club. The club is a rich organisation in every way - history, events, people, and above all...premierships. The people who have supported the club for more than a century come from all walks of life, people you don't find in the numbers at other clubs... Knights of the British Empire, two Prime Ministers, a billionaire, multi-millionaires by the truck-loads, politicians by the truck-loads, TV personalities, academics and graduates from the best universities like Oxford and Melbourne, and old boys from schools like Geelong Grammar and St Kevin's. Ridiculously long? It's long because it has a long history! And do you want to know something sunshine? It's gonna get longer! So there you go. And... come to think of it... for you to come here and write such disrespectful words about such a famous club suggest to me that you are a loser who suddenly realises that he is barracking for a bunch of no-hopers. In the name of our fathers who once graced the blue guernsey...go blueboys! Jaker5 14:51, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Carlton fc.jpg

Image:Carlton fc.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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[edit] club mascot section

the section on the club mascot looks like rubbish to me. Unless someone can source that information, it should be removed. -007bond aka Matthew G aka codingmasters 08:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It needs to be either referenced/expanded or removed. I don't know anything about the mascot or what he does at the home games since I live in W.A., so if someone else could do that it'd be a great help. Orichalcon 13:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Club Honour Board

The hyperlink for Ian Nankervis refers to the GEELONG Ian Nankervis, not the Carlton Ian Nankervis. Looks bad, is bad.Ningbojoe 01:29, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

So fix it in future. It actually would've been shorter to edit the article yourself than to complain about it here. Orichalcon 14:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Carlton-2007-Clash.gif

Image:Carlton-2007-Clash.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 10:53, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Carlton-2007.gif

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BetacommandBot 10:54, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:2006 AFL Carlton2006.jpg

Image:2006 AFL Carlton2006.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Carlton fc.jpg

Image:Carlton fc.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:45, 12 February 2008 (UTC)