Talk:Carlos Tévez

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[edit] Permanant Move

Source. The move has been confirmed by the club as permanent.

I believe Tévez didn't played the 2003 Youth World Cup, because he was with Boca playing the Intercontinental Cup against A.C Milan.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.235.185.218 (talk • contribs)

Hm, you've got a point:
"Tevez became embroiled in controversy when he opted to play for Boca in the European/South American Cup against AC Milan instead of travelling with the national side to the FIFA World Youth Championship UAE 2003. It was to be the first of many polemics involving the striker." FIFA World Cup.
He might have joined ot the final matches tough; I'll dig into it. Mariano(t/c) 06:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I seem to remember he flew back and joined the team later, but I can't remember. Sebastian Kessel Talk 14:52, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Nope, it seams he didn't go to the Emirates at all. Mariano(t/c) 09:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Tevez has NOT signed for West Ham

Heritage

What is his descent? The Links at the end of the side shows that he is also Anglo-Brazilian? Where´s the fact which certify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.53.52.177 (talk) 21:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC) yes he has! i dont believe it!!! what a signing

[edit] Semi-Protect?

Shouldn't the page be semi-protect? As in only registered users (not new accounts) can edit the article? -24.92.41.95 12:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Someone should have a look at one of his nicknames "Dumb Fool joining Hammers" looks like vandalism to me.

West Ham have now confirmed the transfer. They have announced they are permanent contracts, not loans.

West Ham Official Site

[edit] Re-Write

I think that this page requires a total rewrite. It looks to have been cobbled together mostly by people who don't speak English, has lots of ugly references and has never been written as a whole, just bits added here and there. Same pretty much goes for Mascherano. I don't have the time right now, but over the coming 3 or 4 days I'll do if it no-one else has by then. I think everyone can agree that two Premiership players (especially of the world class stature of this pair) should have decent pages!! DJDannyP//Talk2Me 16:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tévez vs Tevez

Browsing the web (carlitos' offical and unofficial sites) shows that only wikipedia has "Tevez" written with an accent on the first e. Claphands 18:30, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


I don't know really if it goes with an accent or not, but let me tell you a couple of things:
1) It doesn't make any difference on the pronunciation, so you cannot know how it is spelled by the way it is pronounced on radio or TV.
2) In spanish all words that finish with 'z' and are accentuated on the syllabe before the last one, must have a written accent. There are exceptions, though, and it doesn't fully apply to surnames, since many of them are not from spanish origin.
3) On the other hand, Clarin and La Nacion (the two most important journals in Argentina) and the official site of Tevez, all of them write the surname without the written accent.
I don't know why his name is without an accent; perhaps it was mispelled when the family did the papers to change their surname (that is a very likely option). Or, less likely, the name comes that way in its original form (I don't know the etymology of Tevez)
Anyway, I think the accent should be taken off. Nazroon 16:00, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


In response to questioning on my user talk page.

After seeing somebody else start to change to the accented version, as a simple change for a beginner I decided to standardise the name across the English pages. Main article is entitled Carlos Tévez. Carlos Tevez redirected there. In various articles it was either written with the accent or without, and in some articles it was written both ways throughout the text.

Searching Google Argentina news.

Tévez - http://news.google.com.ar/news?hl=es&cr=countryAR&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=t%C3%A9vez&btnG=Buscar+en+Noticias 1,560 results

Tevez - http://news.google.com.ar/news?hl=es&cr=countryAR&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=tevez&btnG=Buscar+en+Noticias 1,270 results

You have to bare in mind also that many of the Tevez's without the accent could be deemed as search resutls even though they only appear in a URL address. i.e. an article spelling it as Tévez could be entitled tevez.html

Wikipedia ES - http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Tevez = Tévez. But then look at the sidebar where it is written Tevez. Seems in Spanish language Wikipedia this problem also exists!

Look at his profile on the FIFA World Cup 2006 site, first in English: http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/player/182373_TEVEZ_Carlos.html You'll see his name spelled as 11 TEVEZ Carlos as the capitalised surname (the shirt name), and in the profile text below it states "Buenos Aires native Carlos 'Carlitos' Tevez"

However... on the Spanish version of the same page: http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/es/w/player/182373_TEVEZ_Carlos.html You'll see "11 TEVEZ Carlos" same as the English page, but then below in the profile: "Como favorito de la afición de Boca Juniors, Carlitos Tévez se metió...."

You're right his official website uses the name Tevez but that does not imply it to be correct as it could just be lazy typist or somebody else basing the name on incorrect research. Very often when capitalised for appearance on the back of a team shirt accents will be missing from names, which indeed probably filters down to the official squad list, the referees match report and of course the TV graphics and thus the news reports.

In my own experience, living in Argentina and somewhat understanding of Spanish, when I hear the name often on TV the pronunciation is indeed like the Té sound rather than the Te sound.

Also check out Hernán Crespo, and see how even in BBC articles it is written as Hernan.

I think we can both agree it needs standardising across all articles to be written one way or the other, not both.--Jimmyem 23:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

thanks for your response. I just wanted to make sure we were standarizing it the right way! Claphands 06:04, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Full Name

It appeared here in Brazil an interview with him and he told that his full name is Carlos Alberto Martínez. I don't know why every time I correct it, someone go and put it wrong...

Perhaps because you failed to give any sources on the subject. That is not his full name, but his former name. Anyway, I will rephrase the hole thing. Mariano(t/c) 10:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added

Added some info for the main article, Carlos Tévez didn't he score by putting the ball through Van de sars legs in there 1 nil win against man united ?--McNoddy 15:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goal celebration vs West Ham

McNoddy, I'm wondering why you keep inserting "(which he celebrated by taking off his top, running into the stands and been congratulated by the Hammers supporters resulting in a yellow card)" into the text. I've explained on your user talk page and in the edit summary why it really doesn't belong, and the closest you've come to explaining it are "who seen the match" and "Change is gooood", neither of which is policy as far as I'm aware.

The free kick agains Tottenham was a milestone goal so that certainly belongs there. But the celebration is simply a minor footnote - it's hardly the first time a player has celebrated a big goal by going into the stands and/or taking off his shirt. It's merely interesting, not notable. --Ytny (talk) 12:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Players these days aren't even aloud to go near the fans, when they score these days, taking off your top results in an automatic yellow card, running into the stands is done very rarely (do you watch football? ever noticed that) and this might of resulted in two yellow cards getting him sent off for these offences but he didn't. It shows how much it meant to him. The celebration was unique, do what you want but I think it should be added. --McNoddy 15:20, 17 May 2007 (UTC) P.S you haven't explained nothing, what you've done is copy and pasted a temple and added the relative words I took one look at it and want 'spam'. The first goal you score in the premiership is note worthy, if you celebrate it like that, it deserves a mention.
I left a template message because it explains the policy clearly and concisely, but I did add a specific message at the end. I wish you had read that. And you also ignored the edit summary I left the second time. It would've been good form to at least provide a good reason in the edit summary, if not in the talk. But thank you for responding to me here.
Now, I never said that celebrations like that weren't rare, just that it's hardly not the first or the last of its kind. But that's besides the point. Inserting your own interpretation on the importance of the celebration amounts to WP:POV and WP:OR. If the celebration really was notable, then you could (and should be able to) quote a reliable, independent source saying as much. --Ytny (talk) 19:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
While you don't see it every game, it is not rare at all. Players aren't "allowed" to remove their shirt or go into the fans, but referees have to deal with removed shirts and security guards have to deal with players running to the fans semiregularly. It happens enough to be considered commonplace, especially so with players with something to prove (those scoring for the first time(s), those that score seldomly, etc.). - Slow Graffiti 07:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] West Ham signing legality?

I keep reading things saying that the Tevez signing was illegal. For example http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2078976,00.html starts

Representatives from Sheffield United, Wigan, Fulham and Charlton will meet again today to consider their legal challenge to the decision not to dock West Ham points over Tevez's illegal registration...

Can someone who understands these things put a little more on the matter into the article?--Nickpheas 16:24, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Relax. He was always eligible to play for West Ham. Sheffield Utd don't think the commission which fined West Ham followed the correct procedure and are having another commission to look at this. It is between them and them Premier League. It does not include, Tevez, West Ham OR have the power to change the original penalty.--Egghead06 17:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Roman Ibrahimovic is the owner of the Corinthians sponsers. He told Corinthians to sell Tevez (and Maschareno) to West Ham so Chelsea could buy him for cheaper. There.82.13.73.139 19:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like the usual nonsense that comes out of Grimsby! ;-) --Malcolmxl5 20:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tévez on a possible move to Internazionale

The article on Wikipedia says that Tévez would fancy a move to the Italian side. However, that is not what he says to Sky Sports. He says that he is aware that there is interest in him and that it would be nice to play in Italy. He is holding his possibilities open, he does not say that a move to Inter is more likelier or favourable than a move to another club.


Here is what the article from Sky Sports says:

The Argentine striker, currently preparing for the Copa America in Venezuela, says he knows the Italian champions are targeting him.

A number of the top Premier League clubs have been linked with the West Ham frontman but, with international team-mates including Hernan Crespo, Julio Cruz and Walter Samuel already plying their trade at the San Siro, it seems Serie A may now be his favoured destination.

"I know Inter are interested in me," said Tevez.

"It would be nice to play in Italy, especially in a team that has so many Argentinians.

"There will be some meetings, some discussions, but I really don't know anything official yet."


I suggest to remove that part, but to keep the part where Massimo Moratti reveals his interest.

I suggest anyone who enters anything on Wikipedia based on transfer speculation created to sell newspapers is typing for the sake of it. Tevez is a West Ham player until he isn't.......--Egghead06 05:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arsenal

There have been a spate of edits referring to Arsenal today, which are premature to say the least. Most have been reverted but User:82.11.193.193 persists in writing that: "...in recent interviews has said that he would like to stay in England, with Arsenal as the favourites to sign the Argentinean forward." Rather than engage in edit wars, I have ask him to provide a source [1]. Please delete it the statement about Arsenal after a reasonable time if no source is forthcoming. --Malcolmxl5 22:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Manchester United

Small edit to show breaking news of a possible transfer to Manchester United. Daily Mail are saying it is a done-deal; other sources vary. Suggest keeping the page locked until more concrete details emerge to prevent rumours making their way onto the page. Spikeh 15:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Can we just change his team to Man U already? It's only a matter of time —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.180.24.158 (talk • contribs) 07:12, 6 July 2007
That isn't how Wikipedia works though. Anyway given todays revelations that the Premier League expect any transfer deal to be done with West Ham rather than MSI, this deal is far from being a certainty. According to reports, Man Utd were to loan Tevez from MSI for only £6 million. Now they are being forced to buy him off West Ham, who if they try to sell him on the cheap and forward the money to MSI, may be in danger of relegation. Sheffield Utd's high court date has been set for July 13, which may also have a bearing on all of this. Overall then, far from certain... aLii 07:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Not really, the Premier League were just mouthing off. They won't do anything. An announcement is expected this afternoon as he's currently undergoing a medical in Venezuela. Still, it's done done yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.47.243.52 (talk • contribs) 15:12, 6 July 2007

Carlos tevez has been loaned to Manchester United for two years, with them having the option at the end of those 2 years, to sign him for a further three years. This way they don't need to pay a huge transfer fee straight off, something that was difficult to manage in the first place with so much money having already been spent. His loan deal has been struck at close to 4 million pounds, very small considering a player of his talent. So Manchester United have acted really smartly. The deal is DONE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ankitsood87 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 6 July 2007
Tevez has just completed a medical at Argentina's base for the Copa America so the loan deal is complete. It is a 2 year loan deal with an option to add another year or purchase the player at that stage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DeMistro (talk • contribs) 15:46, 6 July 2007
Is the deal done???? http://www.whufc.com/articles/article.php?page_id=9272 --Egghead06 17:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
hmm, interesting! As the link didn't work for me I'll quote the statement here:
The following is an official statement from West Ham United Chairman Eggert Magnusson...
"Carlos Tevez is a registered West Ham United player, contracted to the Club until June 2010.
"There is no agreement with West Ham United for Carlos Tevez to leave the Club and we expect him to return in time for next season's preparations.
"No decision on his future can be reached without the agreement of West Ham United." aLii 19:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Can anybody explain to me the difference between the Tevez to Man Utd and Mascherano to Liverpool deals, in that the former has provoked much more controversy than the latter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.90.209 (talk • contribs) 18:12, 6 July 2007

Yes, Mascherano was transfered before the case against West Ham was brought, whereas Tevez wasn't. He played for them after they declared the MSI-West Ham contract illegal, so if it was found that the hammers didn't actually tear up their contract with MSI, they could be in shit. aLii 19:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
In shit is a technical term. :-) Small edit for reasons of brevity.Spikeh 01:31, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Second thoughts, no it's not - see below.Spikeh 01:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
West Ham were never required to tear up their contract with Tevez/MSI. They were required to remove the offending clauses which related to 3rd party influence. Other than that Tevez is still a West Ham player on the contract signed with West Ham in August 2006 which runs until 2010. People should remember that Kia Joorabchian is a football agent and football agents like to stir and maximize their income!--Egghead06 06:49, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
The decision[2] of the recent arbitral panel in the Sheffield Utd vs. Premier League dispute, states that the Premier League required West Ham to either satisfactorily modify the third party agreement or to terminate the agreement (section 45, pp 21-22). West Ham chose to terminate the agreement (section 46, pp 22-23). I take that to mean that the entire third party agreement was scrapped and not that the offending clause(s) were removed and the agreement otherwise remains. --Malcolmxl5 12:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Selling Tevez to Manchester United without MSI's permission isn't against the league's rules, and thus West Ham couldn't be relegated for doing so. However, it's MSI that want Tevez sold so that they can be compensated for their investment, and this "compensation" could, in the league's eyes, amount to proof that a third-party agreement still exists. Which is the central pillar in West Ham's argument that Tevez was legitimately allowed to play the end of last season and that they shouldn't be relegated. It's therefore FAR from a done deal. BeL1EveR 12:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

FIFA has said that they are willing to step in to help Manchester United complete the transfer if needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.118.113.246 (talk • contribs) 18:57, 11 July 2007

Well the latest Sky Sports News "scoop" is that Joorabchian is going to "give evidence" to Sheffield Utd that "could get West Ham relegated." Someone's gonna end up losing big. aLii 19:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Two bits of news tonight. Kia has made a statement reported fairly widely, saying, "On Tuesday Carlos Tevez will fly to Britain for a medical at Old Trafford as part of the process of his transfer to Manchester United. It is our understanding that all parties involved in the transfer are now satisfied the administrative issues will be settled in the next few days. We will not be adding further to this statement at this time." See here[3]. The other news is that the Brazilian press are (apparently) reporting that Kia Joorabchian and Boris Berezovski are wanted for money laundering in connection with Corinthians[4], [5], [6] and [7]. All in (I think) Portuguese, I'm afraid. Crazy! --Malcolmxl5 22:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Now in The Times.[8]. --Malcolmxl5 22:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Fergie has just said (17 July, pm) that Tevez will arrive on Wednesday. I don't know whether he was just talking about a medical, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.139.247.10 (talk • contribs) 13:49, July 17, 2007

OK. Let's see what happens tomorrow, it should become clearer. --Malcolmxl5 13:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transfer Speculation & Future

Decided it was probably time we move the speculation to a new section. It has been growing in size and detracting from the West Ham section that it was in previously. It adds nothing to the West Ham section beyond a distraction. Makes things succinct IMO. Thoughts?Spikeh 01:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Also rewrote it to condense the speculation and cut out a lot of crap. Less prosaic and more informative now. Spikeh 01:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Nice edit. aLii 06:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

The revision "Tevez Pleads Ignorance" sounds to me like he may just be trying to get the media off his back. It has been far too widely reported for him not to be in discussions with United - I'm going to reword it. There are new reports today that he's talking to the papers as well - http://www.itv-football.co.uk/Story/0,14272,6107_2481754,00.html - so this seems a little soon to be dismissing the transfer Spikeh 11:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What a crap article

I agree someone needs to sort this page out its a complete shambles. This is where Wiki becomes stupid and lets itself down - who wants to know of the minute details of his possible transfer? This should be one line in the article: 'In the summer of 2007 it has been widely reported that Tevez is likely to be transferred to Manchester United'. The rest of the article should be about the player and the boring news story being churned out by the British press - SOMEBODY SORT IT OUT IT - it's a joke. There Robdav69 09:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

It is getting a little out of hand. I'll pay it some attention tomorrow and reduce the volume of information to a bare minimum. Spikeh 01:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mercenary

Should it be made clear that Tevez like most of the foreign palyers in the premiership simply will cling to the club that offers the most money. Similar to players such as Anelka and Louis Saha —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wkpdisgettingwellpretentious (talk • contribs) 15:22, July 23, 2007

no, it should not, for a number of reasons. foremost among them is that west ham are likely to find themselves in a similar situation next year and have lost a number of players because of it. secondly, tevez has been in the league for only one season. thirdly, money doesn't really have much to do with it - anelka is the only player you can support your argument with; saha spent a long time at fulham and has been loyal to manchester united since then. Spikeh 01:18, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Free Agent?

The first paragraph states that he is currently a free agent, I think this gives the wrong impression as it is clear that he belongs to MSI, and will shortly officially transfer to Manchester United. Bathory 13:23, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Only a football club can hold a player's registration so it's correct. Whatever arrangement Tevez has with MSI is irrelevant here. --Malcolmxl5 22:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transfer saga and Manchester United

I have tried to trim down the last paragraph of the transfer saga and the first of the Manchester United section to remove unsourced statements, add some references and removed the blow-by-blow feel to that part. It is suppose to be an encycolpedic article and not a news report. A reminder to newcomers, do say where the information came from, it needs to be verifiable, and remember this is an encyclopedic article not a news report. --Malcolmxl5 21:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] loan

i'm not sure of the technicalities of Tevez's relationships with Manchester United and West Ham UNited. However, if it says "loan" beside Man Utd then it should say "loan" beside West Ham too. Am I not correct? Codu (t)⁄(c) •  00:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The deal MSI had with West Ham was never fully explained, so to put "loan" next to West Ham would be speculation. However, it should be put next to Manchester United as that is the deal that has been put in place between Manchester United and MSI. - PeeJay 17:04, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 4 goals, 11 matches not 2 goals in 10

n|m —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.61.192 (talk) 21:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Take Off the Accent!!!!

I wrote before (In #Tévez Vs. Tevez) that I thought that it should be Tevez, without the accentuation mark. And I wrote my reasons for it. Now I have two articles by the two most importants journals in Argentina, where they touch the subject. They're quite old, by the way.

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2002/08/15/d-00615.htm (Clarín) http://www.lanacion.com.ar/archivo/Nota.asp?nota_id=741931 (La Nación)

I will translate for you a couple of pertinent paragraphs:

"Carlos Alberto Tevez (sin acento) nació..." "Carlos Alberto Tevez (without the accent) was born..." Clarín

"en general se respetan las grafías usadas por sus dueños, que suelen ser las que figuran en sus documentos. Esto no significa que esas formas no deban ser corregidas. Por ejemplo, Tévez , que sí es un patronímico español, debe escribirse con tilde."

"generally the graphic forms used by their owners [in their surnames] are respected, which are usually the ones in their documents. That does not mean that those forms should not be corrected. For example, Tévez, which, yes, is a spanish patronymic, should be written with a tilde." La Nación

So, the first one goes for off the accentuation mark, and the second, more interestingly, says that the journal goes for the way the owner of the name writes it. And so, the journal puts it "without" the accentuation mark. Although the writer of the article recognizes that -according to the rules of the spanish language- it should be written "with" the accent. Nevertheless, I say again that the accentuation mark should be erased. Google Search results is not a very convincing argument; it gives you quantity, whereas this specific articles I mention are only two, but authoritative. If someone is specially committed to this page, I suggest that do the changes from Tévez to Tevez. Or, if nobody objects, I can do it myself. Nazroon (talk) 15:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

i agree. if it were with the accent, surely it would be on the back of his Man Utd top, no??? and also, another MAJOR FOR for getting rid of it, his official site spells it TEVEZ. surely that tells you something?! 77.101.18.129 (talk) 20:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
So you would say that it's Vidic – not Vidić? There's not a lot of players who display the accent mark on their kit. Usually, their name is translated into English without the accent mark. crassic![talk] 22:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tevez' brother at Manchester United

Tevez' younger brother Miguel was given a 2 1/2 year contract with Manchester United in October of 2007, link: http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7BB4CEE8FA%2D9A47%2D47BC%2DB069%2D3F7A2F35DB70%7D&newsid=480433 (which quotes The Sun...). I'm thinking this warrants a mention, but where? I'm fairly new to editing and adding, so be gentle! Paalegge (talk) 09:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)