Talk:Canard (aeronautics)

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Contents 1 Fake the duck 2 Piaggio P-180 should be removed from gallery 3 References 4 canard aerodynamics 5 Contradictions in the pro and con sections

[edit] Fake the duck

Strictly technically speaking, the Sukhoi-27 derivatives are NOT canards, because they also have tailpanes. In fact the russians themselves refer to these aircraft as having an "integrated tandem tri-plane" aerodynamics configuration instead. 82.131.210.162 16:48, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Having tailplanes does not negate the canard aspect. Read the lead paragraph. AKRadecki^Speaketh 16:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Piaggio P-180 should be removed from gallery

The P-180 does not have a canard because the front wing does not have any control surfaces on it. Piaggio specifically points this out on their website:

http://www.piaggioaero.com/en/products/aircraft/p180/efficienza.php

"The Avanti II's forward wing (which is not a canard because it has no control surfaces) " —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lindec (talk • contribs) 17:38, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I object... A new section should be created, and exceptions should be placed there. The new section could be named, for example, "Aircraft not considered canard aircraft". For each entry, a short note describing why it's not a canard aircraft should be included. --Henrickson ^{User talk | Contribs} 21:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think either a special section or deleting the Avanti picture is required. If you read the article: non-moving surfaces are included as canards, so the Avanti's front surface is a canard by that definition. It is fine as it is. - Ahunt (talk) 22:22, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

This article is a great opinion essay, but is not of very much value as an encyclopedia article, because it does not cite references, with the sole exception of one general ref at the bottom. I have tagged each para to show where in-line citations are needed. Please do not remove these tags unless they are replaced with footnotes. - Ahunt (talk) 12:11, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] canard aerodynamics

What canards do is to create additional wing tip vortices which are forced towards the main wing due to the canard induced downwash. These vortices re-attach the flow of the main wing near the wing root and offer improved high alpha (high AoA) performance. A good citation of the issue is the book of Klaus Huenecke, Modern combat aircraft design.

As far as I know the canard existence does not increase the blade root drag. The total drag however could be increased due to the existence of the canards as...external elements.

georgepehli (talk) 10:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Contradictions in the pro and con sections

With regard to the canards always/sometimes stalling before the main wings, and the main wings stalling/never stalling. I don't really know, I just noticed, and "must be designed to stall before the main wing" sounds like pure BS to me. Why must it be designed that way? By U.S. law? By some international agreement? Or is just because of good taste of the designer? ;-) --80.134.46.77 (talk) 14:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

It is actually mentioned in a couple of books that the canards should be deigned to stall before the main wings. This as far as I know there is no US Law for that (except if we assume that the canards are some kind of terrorists ;-) ). The actual reason is that the canards create pitching moments due to their lift. Therefore if the main wing is stalling and the canards produce lift then the plane gets a highly unstable attitude. This can cause dangerous stall/spin situations e.t.c. However this is not the case in combat aircrafts, since these planes are already designed to be unstable (or...artificially stable) in order to be more manuverable. Therefore I do not think that the comment about the stalling point applies in general. Maybe a special note is needed. georgepehli (talk) 21:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)