Talk:Calpernia Addams/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions for the Calpernia Addams article. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion, or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Pronoun

So was she born a girl or a guy? Could someone be more specific than using "she" from the very beginning of the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.199.113.148 (talk • contribs) (the above is clearly disrespectful and ignorant)

• From the article; "During this time she began her transition to living as a woman full-time". "She" is the proper pronoun to use - Ali-oops^✍ 11:11, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

• [ quoting above: So was she born a girl or a guy? ] The very question itself is inappropriate and disrespectful of Calpernia Addams. Such an attribution above is based on an incorrect premise. The reason Calpernia Addams got a vaginoplasty is because she was born a woman, but without her vagina though. The pronoun she is correct and appropriate for all time periods referring to Calpernia Addams or anyone else with a similar medical history.

I have added "as a boy" to the article, leaving "... was born and raised as a boy in ..." This seems the least contentious option, as no one can argue that Addams was raised as a boy. I personally believe that one of two things is necessary in this article: either 1) it is made clear that Addams was born as a boy, but identified as a woman and began living as a woman, or 2) the pronoun "he" is used up to the sentence "During this time she began her transition to living as a woman full-time." Tesseran 23:56, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

"The reason Calpernia Addams got a vaginoplasty is because she was born a woman, but without her vagina though." If you aren't born with a vagina, you aren't a woman. It's that simple. The masculine pronoun should be used to discuss her life before she got the sex change operation, because at that time she was a man.

• To me , she is a woman with the most mesmerising feminity. She is possesed with such captivating beauty that I became her from the first time I saw her picture on the net.

Unitedroad 04:16, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

"If you aren't born with a vagina, you aren't a woman." - Anonymous My (ex) boyfriend said the same thing. He (and Anonymous) were both wrong. If you've ever seen Calpernia act, you know that she is not a guy, and (where it matters) never has been. She's an amazingly beautiful woman who's been through more than I can imagine to be who she is, and to insist on calling her 'he' is not only rude, but inaccurate.Buffalo elf 02:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

sorry to butt in but I had to comment on anonymous - do you have to have male genitalia to be a man or merely lack of female as you say? I am not sure that it is that simple. There are many conditions which are on the continuum of gender - it is binary thinking (often a Western trait) which means we are not comfortable if people do not fit neatly into the either/or box - and to make ourselves comfortable we try to assign boxes that don't often fit particularly well - as far as medical conditions are concerned there is AIS/PAIS etc which often means a woman is born without a vagina but may retain other female characteristics - also of interest is this story http://www.medhelp.org/ais/articles/BORN.HTM . I hope this is useful for the debate. Also interestingly enough is the viewpoint of some cultures who accept there is more than the male/female identities and actually see value in people who may fall in this inbetween area as being valued and revered as they have perceptions on life which 'normal' people don't. Ophelia105 20:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Name

If her birth name is widely-known enough, I'd suggest we include it. NicF 03:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Calpernia was ever widely known by any other name, I do not know her birth name, I don't think it has been widely published, and I know Calpernia finds it very rude when people ask her what her birth name was. I do not think this article should include her birth name, unless there is a very good reason for it to. Andrea Parton 04:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

After a bit of searching, I can't find any official policy on the inclusion of birth names in articles about people who are known by names other than the ones they were born with. But it strikes me -- and I should preface this by saying that I have nothing but the utmost respect for transgendered people and appreciate that this is a sensitive issue -- that one should not keep material out of an article merely because the subject of the article wouldn't want it there. I'm sure O.J. Simpson would love all the information about his trial to be removed from his article, but it's there, because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and if there's relevant, verifiable information about the subject of an article, then it probably belongs in the article. It's at least as relevant as the fact that Bill Clinton's birth name was Blythe. NicF 08:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, some of Wikipedia's articles on transgender people include their birth names, such as Dee Palmer, born as David Palmer, Wendy Carlos, born as Walter Carlos, and Barbara Amesbury, born as Bill Amesbury. I agree that it is necessary for these articles to include the birth names of their subjects, because they gained much of their notability under their former names. In the case of Barbara Amesbury's article, someone removed all references to her former name several times, and when edit wars ensued, nominated the article for deletion. So this is definitely a sensitive issue. On the other hand, I never knew that Bill Clinton was born as Blythe, and I find it interesting. So, the question is, do you know Calpernia's birth name, and is it notable? If so, I will not object if you add it to the article, but I cannot promise that no one else will. Andrea Parton 15:25, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I have no idea what her birth name was. I'd never even heard of her before seeing her in Transamerica. NicF 00:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Term

Wouldn't Addams be medically classified as being an intersexual rather than a transexual? Asarelah 06:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

• I have never heard of Addams having ever had any physical intersex condition. If you have heard somewhere that she did, add further discussion here or add it to the article. Just remember, everything in the article must be verifiable. Andrea Parton 14:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Well according to what people have written above, Addams was born female, but without a vagina and needed to have one surgically made. I'll see if I can look it up. I'm not sure why should identify herself as transsexual instead of intersexual if that were the case though. Asarelah 22:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
    • I think what they meant was that she identified as female from birth; however, I could always be wrong. There are several reasons she could identify as transexual instead of intersexual, though, running the gamut of hormonal imbalances (which I think would fall under intersex) to simply identifying as female. - Ambientlight 03:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)