Talk:Caillou/Archive 1

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Contents

Vandalism?

I strongly suspect some folks have been over this and vandalized it.

  • about a 4-year-old bald-headed boy named Kuckoo who lives with his 2-year-old little sister, Stinky (Mouse the Rat in the original French version)"
  • Additionally, the film Caillou's Holiday Movie was released direct-to-DVD and video on 7 October 1914. On 3 April 2006"
  • Doo-Doo - Caillou's mom. She is an accountant. She wears a red blouse with lace. She is always wise and tries to help her son understand things when they seem too complicated for him to comprehend. She is a loving wife and a mentor for her kids.
  • Boo-Boo - Caillou's dad. He is very clumsy, and the things he repairs often go haywire on him. Like Caillou's mom, he is also a brunette. He wears a green sweatshirt. He is silly, but nevertheless a good father. Also a Renaissance man: he enjoys spending private time with his wife, Doris. They always recount funny memories about their first honeymoon from time to time.
  • Stinky (French name: Mouse the Rat) - Caillou's sister. A redhead with a tingle of mischief, she sometimes gets Caillou into trouble, but all in all is a good girl. Rosie is about a year-and-a-half to two years younger than Caillou, but she is growing too. In later seasons of the program, she becomes more talkative and independent.
  • Grandwee - Caillou's grandma. She is an artist and often comes up with creative ideas to solve Caillou's problems.
  • Grandpee - Caillou's grandpa. He often takes walks with Caillou and is often involved in outdoor activities with him too. He is Boris's father."

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.151.163.99 (talk) 14:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC).


* Ms. Martin - Caillou's teacher is she likes to tell the kids.

Is this a left-over from previous vandalism? 172.173.243.11 00:58, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Cancelled?

Any new episodes? What happened? --Maoririder 19:42, 27 July 2005 (UTC) --Maoririder 14:38, 5 August 2005 (UTC) Plot --Maoririder 14:38, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Apparently, the show is in some sort of limbo. The voice of Caillou, Jaclyn Linetsky, perished in an accident in 2003 (Although apparently, they got a new voice actor to make the movie). And Cinar, the company behind animating Caillou, was bought over and turned into Cookie Jar Entertainment, and apparently some of their programs, one of them Caillou, is apparently frozen in production. --RAMChYLD 05:07, 26 August 2005 (+8 GMT)

Well, this comes too late, but new episodes started 3 April 2006. More are said to be coming in Fall, too. RAM 03:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Cinar got into some very serious trouble. There was a big financial scandal, and it took a lot of time to settle. Hugo Dufort (talk) 02:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Splitting the Article?

I think this article should be split into Caillou (TV series) and Caillou (book series), as there are apparently details in the original French books that do not correspond to the English-language TV series. For example, the PBS page on Caillou (http://pbskids.org/caillou/grownups/faq.html) indicates reasons other than cancer/chemotherapy for Caillou's lack of hair. Grammaticus Repairo 18:26, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

New animation

Are the new episodes really in the traditional "pen and ink" animation? The animation and motion in the new episodes seem to have been done in macromedia flash.--Kenn Caesius 22:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

African AMERICAN?

# Clementine - Clementine was the first to befriend Caillou in the 1998 episode "Caillou Goes To Daycare". She is four years old like Caillou and can get rather bossy sometimes, but all in all she's pretty understanding. She is of African-American heritage. This is a Canadian show! Why is there the assumption she's American? -Rolypolyman 19:20, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Canada is a part of North America. -WarthogDemon 21:14, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Her family could have immigrated from the Carribean or Africa. Unless there is evidence that she is indeed "African-American", which I assume to mean her family has lived in North-America for many generations, the sentence should either be removed or clarified. 76.19.41.138 20:27, 28 October 2006 (UTC) Pierre
Why do so many people take issue with the term 'African-American'? If a person from Ireland moves to 'America' and becomes a citizen, that person is, by definition, an Irish-American. Africa is no different. The fact that when we think of 'African-Americans' we automatically associate the term with those black people who have been living in 'America' for many generations (generally as a result of slavery) does not mean that the people who are third- or second- or first-generation 'Americans' who have recently moved from the African continent are not 'African-American'. In fact, the more generations a family has lived in 'America', the more American and the less African (or Irish, Italian, Mexican, Chinese, etc) they become. This is certainly true with regards to culture and often with regards to race/ethnicity (ie 'genetically' speaking) as well.
Clementine is clearly intended to be an African-American (or African-Canadian) character. We don't need to clarify or remove the sentence pending the results of a family background check. -Grammaticus Repairo 19:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Rolypolyman. The show is Canadian. The entry - if it is meant to be politically correct - could just say she is "of African origin" or something like that. Same thing for "Chinese American." The whole African-American question isn't whether or not the character is of a different ethnicity, which clearly she is, but whether it makes sense to say that the character is "African American" if they are Canadian. The term isn't meant to refer to the continent of North America - but to the United States of America. And if the show was set in Africa would we point out that Caillou is "Canadian-African" or that Clementine was "African-African?" (And Africa isn't a country anyway, nor is it an ethnicity.)Trevor Sinclair 15:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

The Show's Origin

It would be good to state at the beginning of the article where the caillou books and shows originated. This seems to be standard practice for other similar children's characters. 76.19.41.138 02:31, 28 October 2006 (UTC) Pierre

Great Orator

Has anybody else noticed that Caillou speaks perfect English? His sentences may be simpler, sure, but he always pronounced every word perfectly and uses correct sentences. It's kind of strange to hear a supposed young child saying, "I would like to go to the store to get some ice cream, Mommy." Maybe it's just me.203.131.167.26 02:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

He pretty much HAS to, if he's going to be of any interest to kids; particularly because he began in books. "It's much hard a lot too reed if en eash bok Cailou's sentenaces were wrote like these." I could be mistaken but I think there's a term for this when talking about teaching your kid speech. It has to be dumbed down somewhat, yes, but it still has to maintain a certain amount of coherence. As a final note, you'll notice for example that when the Storyteller mentios that Caillou is feeling a certain kind of emotion, Caillou doesn't explain it the same way; he says it more "child-like" since he IS a kid like you said. This is all probably information overload so I'll digress here. Just adding my two cents. -WarthogDemon 00:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Boris a software engineer?

The impression I get from the CONTEXT of one or two episodes of the series is that Boris, Caillou's dad, is a software engineer. True? Demf 20:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The name Caillou

BTW, isn't Caillou some sort of nickname common in Europe (and, indirectly, in Quebec)? I'm from Puerto Rico, and when José Miguel Agrelot was alive, he occasionally referred to one of his grandchildren, Carlo Giuseppe, as "Cayú", which is the phonetic spelling of Caillou. When the series came about, I was surprised by the coincidence. Excuse my francais, but stretching the analogy a bit, wouldn't the name Caillou be a contraction of Charles and Jean or some other French name? Demf 20:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Cancer?

Does Caillou have cancer? If not, why is he bald?--70.162.46.19 19:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I must confess, dear IP editor, that I too have thought the same. It would be remarkably unnatural for a child of Caillou's age to be completely and totally bald unless they were undergoing some sort of Chemotherapy or Radiotherapy to treat a cancer/tumour. Maybe someone with a little media knowledge could possibly shed some light on this for us... Thor Malmjursson 10:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I always assumed he was like Charlie Brown from Peanuts. He could have Alopecia or something similar, but it is probably just to make him distinctive as a character. From the article, I take it that his parents called him Caillou because of this trait, though no reference to the condition has been made from other characters I've seen on the show in the U.S. airings. It is possible that he is supposed to have very short fine blond or translucent hair and we just can't see it because the parents keep it so short, but I think his baldness is something the artist and writer (of the books) must have just come up with.Trevor Sinclair 15:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Charlie Brown had a symbolic scribble of hair, ala Homer Simpson. Caillou does not have extremely short blonde hair. He is absolutely completely bald, and its weird. --Ragemanchoo (talk) 13:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I can not see any trace of short blond or translucent hair at all. So who can help us? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.144.201.186 (talk) 06:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Caillou was much younger in the original books than he is in the TV series. Because the image of a bald Caillou was already established and well-known, they chose to keep him bald in the cartoons even though he was made older. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.187.234.103 (talk) 17:49, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Leo Martin?

It doesn't seem (at least in the American TV version) that Calliou's friend Leo is the son of the daycare teacher, Ms. Martin. Leo refers to his teacher as "Ms. Martin" (e.g. "Ms. Martin said it would work.") -- he never mentions that she is his mother. Ms. Martin and Leo's mother both have red hair, but Leo's mother has freckles and Ms. Martin does not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lastwomanstanding (talk • contribs) 18:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

Yes, but in the sleepover episode, Mrs. Martin is his mom. Janet6 12:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment re: Caillou learning a bad word from a teenager.

If I recall, a small minority in the US kicked up a bit of a stink over a similar situation in a popular US cartoon called Berenstain Bears; an episode existed where Brother and Sister were caught watching a movie intended for teenagers (Trouble at Big Bear High) and learned a word which although not offensive in real life, was treated as being such in the toon (I believe they were calling their friends and others "Furball"). I don't personally see what all the fuss is, since you bet your life that before a child hits 5 they will have learned an obscene/offensive word and used it without knowing its meaning. People should be thanking the makers of toons like this for helping them and their kids understand the value of not using "bad" language. Thor Malmjursson 10:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Controversy Section

I just removed the entire controversy section. I spent almost an hour trying to find sources for that information and I have not been able to find anything anywhere that comes even close to being a legitimate resource. Plus, the "infamous" petition to get the show off the air is not mentioned anywhere except the petition's own website and a couple message boards. The section can be replace if it becomes sourcable at some point in the future. Trusilver 23:08, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I included sources in the section. This is blatant censorship. If controversy exists over the show - and I can cite many sources, Wikipedia should show it. If there exists a petition to remove Caillou from the airwaves - as you admit - it should be noted. The controversy over Caillou is hardly a tiny group of dissatisfied viewers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.186.198 (talk) 19:02, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

If you can site many VERIFIABLE, REPUTABLE sources--not blogs, not user reviews submitted by "superdork", not some online petition (which anyone can start about any crackpot notion they take--why do you think they are almost universally ignored by the subjects of such petitions?)--then so be it. But none of the sources you used meets WP:VER, and no amount of repeating yourself will change that. Gladys J Cortez 19:11, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I've re-added the controversy section because Wikipedia has never demanded the sort of sources you seem to want. Some of the sources I've referred to ARE verifiable and reputable. If Caillou is being attacked on blogs those criticisms need to be shown - even if some of them are written by authors with silly names. Besides, attacking the person making the argument is an ad hominem attack - if the argument is wrong, you should address that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.186.198 (talk) 19:15, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

All the sources you've posted are either message boards or blogs - not reliable sources. Also, our neutral point of view policy states that only viewpoints that have a reliable source should be represented (see WP:UNDUE). Evil saltine (talk) 19:41, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

1. I have made no ad hominem attacks, unless you call "repeating yourself" an ad-hominem attack, in which case I don't know WHAT to say to you. 2. I have brought this to the attention of the Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents WP:AN/I-- [1]] to see which interpretation of WP:VER is supported. If they say "hey, blogs and user-reviews are fine", then I will abide by that. In the meantime, I'm leaving this issue alone. Gladys J Cortez 19:39, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Blogs, forums, message boards: none of these is a reliable source. Period. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:50, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The discussion from WP:AN/I can be found here. [2] Policy appears to support the interpretation given by Orange Mike above. Gladys J Cortez 20:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The fact is, many parents find Caillou to be objectionable. Clearly there have been many attempts to point this fact out on Wikipedia but it seems there are people here who are loyal fans of the show and who will not permit any criticism to appear here. I remind people that Wikipedia is not a fansite - it's supposed to be an encyclopedia - a place people go to for UNBIASED knowledge. Sadly, some people here are trying to stifle the idea that Caillou is not universally liked. That is not what an encyclopedia should be doing. If people here want to praise Caillou they have that option - on their own website. As well as telling people about the show's positive aspects (which the Wikipedia article does), in order to be fair, Wikipedia should contain criticisms too. The fact is, there are many people who find this particular show to be distasteful and harmful to the very children it's being targeted towards. Wikipedia should make note of that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BeeryUSA (talk • contribs) 21:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
If this is true, where are the reliable sources reporting this fact? You can't just say it is so, or point to somebody's blog or somebody else's private website: we need verification. I don't watch the show, don't care about the show; I do care about verifiability. People come here for solid facts; in spite of the vandals, the naïve, and the point-of-view pushers, we attempt to provide them. If you've got some solid sources, please provide them; but don't keep breaking the rules because you have The Truth in your pocket! --Orange Mike | Talk 22:01, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Caillou is regarded by some parents as being a bad influence on their children. One reviewer has even called it "The most dangerous show on kid's TV." [3] while a critical viewer on another website says "Cartoon characters may be fictional, but to my kids, they're quite real and have significant influence." [4]. On another site, a parent writes "I'm not too sure if this is a good cartoon for... any kids to be watching." [5]. An Associated Content article argues that "Caillou has its feet firmly planted in fantasy land" --REMOVED LINK: BLACKLISTED--. Robert J. Houeston, in Tactical Leadership [6] writes: "my daughter likes baths. But one day Caillou didn't want to take a bath. He cried and whined, but once he got in the tub, he loved it. Clearly the message was supposed to be, 'Don't cry at bath time because baths are a lot of fun.' But for a week after watching that show, my daughter would cry and whine at bath time. She had observed the poor behavior of Caillou on TV, saw that it was wrong, but still she modeled her own behavior on what she observed in others." - - Critics argue that since the character is often seen complaining or acting up, children under 5 will often copy the behavior without learning the lessons taught by the story arc.

The above section belongs in the article. It includes reliable sources and verifiable quotes. It is NOT 'vandalism'. Anyone who thinks it is vandalism is misrepresenting what is an honest effort to get a much-needed alternative viewpoint - a viewpoint that many parents share. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BeeryUSA (talk • contribs) 21:58, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

    • And we will GLADLY include the information, IF AND ONLY IF, WHEN AND ONLY WHEN, you can provide sources that meet the core Wikipedia policy statement WP:VER. Adding poorly-sourced material IS "vandalism" by every conceivable reading of Wikipedia policy, (refactored: REPEATEDLY adding ANYTHING against consensus is a violation of policy-what I meant, but not what I said.) and by administrative consensus and many, MANY precedents. We are not trying to remove your "alternative viewpoint"--we are attempting to meet a CORE WIKIPEDIA POLICY. When you can offer sources that meet that policy, this point of view will be included. Not until.Gladys J Cortez 22:24, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Adding poorly sourced material is not vandalism, by any conceivable reading of the policy. That said, I definitely agree with the removal of this section unless reliable sources can be provided for verification. --Onorem♠Dil 22:26, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Agreed and refactored--typing fingers GREATLY outpaced brain on that one. Onorem, you are right.