Talk:Caganer

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Seriously? This is like vandalism! Someone needs to take the "joke" reasons down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.102.164 (talk) 01:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] How long?

Any idea how long this tradition has been in existance? crazyeddie 22:11, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nope no idea. I've lived in Barcelona twice (both times through Christmas) and it is a real tradition that people practice (and I have a caganer on my mantel back home here in the USA.) No one seems to know when or how this or the Tió de Nadal became known.

DJKS 22:50, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well, what's the earlist that anybody knows about? Some Barecelonan want to ask their grandparents? crazyeddie 04:30, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Really old grandparents :) [1]... I'll update the article. 68.81.231.127 09:25, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Oh, poop

These Catalans should be ashamed of themselves! 70.112.180.16 07:44, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Oh, poop :p 68.81.231.127 09:25, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Barretina/Barratina

Nice work! We have an article barretina for what you spelled barratina. I linked and changed the spelling, but I am not sure which one is correct. Please use either spelling you think is correct. -- Chris 73 Talk 09:35, Dec 19, 2004 (UTC)


Thanks. In Catalan "barretina" and "barratina" are pronounced exactly the same. The correct spelling is "barretina." So thanks for the correction!!

DJKS 03:38, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Humor

I absolutely love the part about why the tradition remains in existence:

  1. The Caganer, by creating feces, is fertilizing the Earth. Thus, he is considered a symbol of prosperity and luck for the coming year.
  2. Some Catalans consider it to be funny.

This is a perfect example of the type of humor Wikipedia needs more of! -- Phyzome is Tim McCormack 18:22, 2004 Dec 19 (UTC)

[edit] Culture

Well, I am Catalan and I was surprised when seeing this article in the frontpage of Wikipedia. I can't thing of any Nativity scene which misses the Caganer. I've even seen scenes with the Caganer and missing the Shephereds and the Kings. I remember when I was little I was really surprised nowhere else in the world had the same tradition. I've asked my grandmother and she's always known about this tradition and is not aware of its origins. In fact, I don't know why, Catalan culture has always been really related with literally shit. We have a lot of refrains concerning this, and often in popular speech is a quite common topic to speak about, which can be somehow strange, ridiculous or even funny. As said in the article, Tió de Nadal is another example of it.

But the whole thing goes further. We have even poetry about defecating! I can't remember a lot from my Catalan literature but the most important author of Catalan Baroque literature (hope I'm not really wrong) even dedicated a poem to poo, called Himne a la merda translated to English as Hymn to the poo (sorry I can't find anything in the Net). At least, peculiar. I have no problem in telling how to pronounce Caganer, though I don't know how. Any link helping me? -- Sometent 19:02, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Anyone else find this article's tone to be almost in protest of the practice described? I found that to be a little unsettling to find in an encyclopedia entry...

Hi, you forgot to add a signature! (In the future, you can just type: ~~~~, User:24.13.122.71.) In answer to your question, I think there are a couple of lines that clearly dance around the subject, but overall it seems fairly respectful. I'd be interested to hear from some native Catalonians on the topic. 68.81.231.127 04:29, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Something that I haven´t found in the article is a reference saying that the figure of the caganer also appears in the Nativity Scenes in other places in Spain. I´m from Andalusia and many people here put it in their scenes. Also the figure is well sold in many shops. Obviously, people don´t use the catalan name but a peculiar translation: "el tio cagando".

[edit] Did you know?

No I did not. Thank you Wikipedia. --NoPetrol 18:07, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This is fabulous. - Montréalais 01:38, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Synchronicity

I had JUST read an article about the controversy concerning using members of the Spanish royal family in such scenes. http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?cg=BreakingNews-Andinothernews&ao=176832 discusses it.

[edit] Removed links

I added two links and expanded a bit, but I also removed the embedded links (there was already a link under external links, and a new link I added confirmed 18c), and the following links because they seemed a bit unprofessional:

68.81.231.127 23:26, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

How do you pronounce Caganer? And would it be patronising to include this at the beginning of the article? Palefire 03:03, Dec 19, 2004 (UTC)

I'm an American currently living in Barcelona. When I first arrived here 3 years ago and saw my first caganer, I couldn't believe it was for real. But then as I began picking them out in just about every nativity scene I saw around the city, I saw that it was. There are even gift stores that sell limited edition, collection versions of famous people in the caganer pose. There are other variations as well...for example of the shepherd peeing.

As for the pronunciation: ka-ga-neh

--skyboy 00:02, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)


Actually it would be pronounced kuh-guh-NAY. In Catalan, the letters "a" and "e" are pronounced the same in unstressed syllables (as an unstressed "uh" sound.) Words ending in "r" are stressed on the final syllable and the "r" is silent. Some Catalans, however, will pronounce unstressed vowels as if they were in a stressed position (e.g., kah-guh-NAY.)

-- DJKS 03:45, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This page is great -- Last semester, during some "cultural discussion" in a Spanish II course at my college, the professor attempted to explain the significance of the caganer to the class. My classmates and I were all rather incredulous at the idea and since my prof ran out of ways to describe the concept delicately in English, class moved on and most of us forgot about it. -- Until I read the article.

--gordonfreeman 13:49, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The pronunciation in the internation phonetic alphabet is kə-γə-'ne. Llull 09:49, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Google Ads

This is one time I really wish that Wikipedia had Google Ads - because I kinda want to buy one these things for next years nativitiy scene. crazyeddie 20:48, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reasons for the Caganer

I can't help feeling a rather major reason for the Caganer has not been included. There was a brilliant article on ship-of-fools.com (since deleted, alas) explaining how the traditional view of the Nativity has become increasingly sanitised, both in presentation and in theology, and the consequent "denial of shit" ("shit" being understood both literally and metaphorically) radically undermines the truth of the Incarnation. So the Caganer is a symbol of the utterly, even grossly, physical aspect of the human condition in which God participates through the Incarnation. I'm not quite sure how to include this (though I might have a try, if no-one else does first). In the mean time, serious respect to whoever it was who made the "unintended" (?!) pun about an "a posteriori explanation" – I laughed so much I kept the neighbours awake. Vilĉjo 01:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] neighbour state

Changed the expression "neighbour state of spain" to "the rest of Spain". Currently Catalunya forms part of the Kingdom of Spain, and therefore part of the Spanish state. The expression "neighbour state" implies the existence of a Catalan state. Whether one views the existence of a Catalan state as positive or negative, one would have to agree that it doesnt exist at the moment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.129.161.22 (talk) 19:10, 25 February 2007 (UTC).