Talk:Café

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Contents 1 What is a café? 2 Origins 3 Re cafés being "more commonly known as cafeterias" 4 Suggest merging this article into coffeehouse

[edit] What is a café?

Dang, this is a mess for something so short! This seems a lot more like a description of what I (a transplanted New Yorker living in Seattle) would call a "coffeehouse" than a "café". In Connecticutt, a "café" is basically a bar or tavern. In the UK (and, I believe, Australia) a "cafe" (without the accent and with a silent "e") is what we in New york call a "greasy spoon."

Only reason I'm getting into this at all is that I'm interested in writing about the coffeehouse culture that evolved out of the Italian espresso joints of NY and SF in the Beat era and has resulted in both a continuing, rather similar coffeehouse culture and a slicked-up commercialized equivalent epitomized by Starbucks.

Do people really think the definition of café here is right? I don't want to mess with it if I'm in a minority.

Jmabel 02:47, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Quite. Where is the List of Cafés? And I'll have to correct you one one thing only: here in Australia a café is a coffeehouse, is spelt with the accent and the 'e' is pronounced. As far as I know, a 'greasy spoon' is a caff in London, and not at all like the nice places to sit and read and chat. —Sam Wilson (Australia) 04:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

• In Eric Bogle's song "I Hate Wogs", in the persona of a racist Australian, he refers in passing to a "Chinese caff". Admittedly, he's a transplanted Scotsman, but I would have thought he'd lived in Oz long enough to get it right. Oh, well. - Jmabel | Talk 09:00, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Café is the correct spelling and often the only spelling recognised by dictionaries. The accent is needed otherwise the word is just "Kay-f" not "Kaf-ay". I think the only reason for the 'Cafe' spelling are the recent trends in being lazy with spelling (and in part because of the difficulties computers had in supporting accents). I think the article should be located at Café with Cafe as a redirect. Kyle sb 06:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the redirect, and the article really needs some revision and added material. Photos, anyone? Some clarifications of what a café is in different regions seems also to be neccessary — we're not all in agreement I think!  :-) —Sam Wilson (Australia) 00:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I've done the redirect, and added a bit; needs more. —Sam Wilson (Australia) 01:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

It's hardly a "recent trend in being lazy with spelling" or a result of computers. Since accents are uncommon in English, dropping them in loanwords is a longstanding part of the anglicisation of loanwords. For example, the French à propos, once written as such in English, is now universally written apropos. Similar examples that have completed or nearly completed the accent-removal process include role (formerly rôle), smorgasbord (formerly smörgåsbord), and elite (formerly élite). Café is midway through the process, with both forms seeing wide use. --Delirium 21:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origins

No offence meant to 81.215.118.78, the author of the following paragraph, but I've removed it to here pending referencing and editing. Can anyone oblige? (I'll do it myself in a day or twelve if no-one else steps up.)

"But the origin of cafes are appeared in Istanbul at Ottoman Era in 1554. Hundreds of them was opened continiously. Most of them are a social club statues. Every guild was own cafe. And those names was 'yenichery cafe, 'sailors cafe', 'meddah(stand-up comadians) cafe, 'karagoz(shadow theatre) cafe'... etc. And specially public cafes turn on a 'singing cafe' at every nights."

—Sam Wilson (Australia) 09:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re cafés being "more commonly known as cafeterias"

Is this true in UK and/or Commonwealth usage? This is definitely not true in U.S. usage. Here, the two words have different connotations. Most people use the word "cafeteria" to refer to a rather utility-grade (if you will) place to get some (utility-grade) food, such as the large room where schoolkids eat, or a restaurant that is set up in similar fashion (sometimes referred to as a "public cafeteria"; almost extinct nowadays). In the U.S., a stylish coffeeshop with good coffee and baked goods would almost never be called a "cafeteria", except as a rather idiolectic or ecolectic usage.

Obviously these words (café, cafeteria, coffeeshop) are used slightly differently in different English-speaking regions. The article ought to state this explicitly and neutrally, and briefly describe the usages in each region, e.g., Britain, Canada, Australia, U.S., etc. Right now I think people in each region have been overwriting each others' usages with a "that's incorrect!" kind of slant. We need to realize that there are regional differences, and list them.

— Lumbercutter 18:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggest merging this article into coffeehouse

Given that this article contains little content (most of it is etymology of the word), I suggest merging this article into coffeehouse. There is no real difference between a café and a coffeehouse, at least in my part of the English-speaking world. Comments? hajhouse 00:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I strongly agree with this proposal. I came here looking for the content that I ended up finding on the page coffeehouse; this page has "coffee shop" in bold and claims that that's distinct from "coffeehouse", but Coffee shop (disambiguation) includes entries for both "coffee shop" and "coffee house". Combine the two and have done with it. --AlexChurchill 23:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

"...but Coffee shop (disambiguation) includes entries for both "coffee shop" and "coffee house"." - It does? I don't see it. Besides, what does that have to do with a café, or the fact cafés and coffee shops are different concepts? These should remain separate articles. Torc2 00:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)