Talk:Byzantine aristocracy and bureaucracy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Middle Ages Portal Byzantine aristocracy and bureaucracy is part of WikiProject Middle Ages, a project for the community of Wikipedians who are interested in the Middle Ages. For more information, see the project page and the newest articles.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on the quality scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.
Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
WikiProject Middle Ages To do:

	Greece Portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Greece, an attempt to expand, improve and standardize the content and structure of articles related to Greece.
If you would like to participate, you can improve Byzantine aristocracy and bureaucracy, or sign up and contribute in a wider array of articles like those on our to do list. If you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.
???	This article has not yet been prioritized.
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked

I just wanted to note, I wasn't entirely sure what this article should be called, so I came up with this. I was trying to think of something that reflected the administration of the empire, and "Byzantine titles" didn't seem right, even though that's pretty much what the article amounts to. Anyway, if someone can think of something better, go ahead. Adam Bishop 07:09, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The Parakoimomenos was, by the age of Middle Byzantium certainly, the chief eunuch in the imperial palace and one of the most important men at court. Additionally, alongside the Protovestiarios I think mention should be made of the Ostarios (Keeper of the Door) and Nipsistarios (the Holder of the Imperial Washbasin), all of whom were significant positions. On the military side, the Drungarios ton Ploimon was in many ways and equal to the Domestikos of the Scholai in tems of prestige and often competed with the latter in the Byzantine machinations of the period. (Anatole Pang)

---

Contents 1 Roger de Flor 2 The Regiments 3 Need reorganization 4 "Born in the Purple" 5 Aristocracy

[edit] Roger de Flor

Was Roger de Flor a kaisar or just a megaduke? -- Error 05:22, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The Roger de Flor article says he was a caesar, and one of the sources I was using also said that (I forget which, but most likely Treadgold). Adam Bishop 05:24, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)

[edit] The Regiments

Should we add the military organisation's titles/ranks here or within the Byzantine battle tactics? (i.e. Tribune, Adjudor, Centenarius, Centarch, Decarch, Protocmandator, etc...) Dryzen 12:47, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need reorganization

To highlight a flowchart like view of the offices of state.

[edit] "Born in the Purple"

It seems incorrect to me that "Born in the Purple" refers to any room's color. It is more likely a reference to Tyrian Purple. KongminRegent 00:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems pretty well attested.[1] I expect a purple border on the cloak came first, then purple booties for the new baby, then the whole room decked out in purple. Kind of like how they got titles like Panhypersebastos. Tom Harrison ^Talk 00:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

As Tom Harrison ^Talk indicated the meaning evolved to an eventual purple room. Purple was also a dye which the Imperial family held a monopoly on, giving the the colour purple and its mention a symbolism of the Imperial power. Something that could greatly confuse modern readers who may take the mention as directly meaning the colour itself rather than its symbolism.--Dryzen 16:09, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The final meaning is well evidenced. Imperial princes and princesses were only given this title if they were born in that room; the majority were not, and therefore did not have the title, either because their mothers were not (yet) empresses, or because their mothers were not in Constantinople when giving birth, or both. Andrew Dalby 19:13, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aristocracy

There's very little on them, and the persistance of a senatorial class Johnbod 22:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)