Talk:Buster Martin

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An entry from Buster Martin appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 7 March 2007.
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[edit] more evidence needed

I only see newspaper articles cited, which notoriously repeat false age claims as fact. Mike Linksvayer 23:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that comment - it seems suspicious to me that "Buster" won't give his first name and that his birth and marriage both took place in France, where records couild be said to have been misplaced during the war, rather than in the UKStruman

[edit] Sources

I just took out two references which weren't references, they were just statements which needed references themselves. I also added a moresources tag to the article because there are many unsourced statements. If you have any questions leave them on my talk page. Acidskater 00:19, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Buster Martin.jpeg

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BetacommandBot 05:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cited very well

If expanded, GA might be possible.-h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 15:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Article contains publicity for Pimlico Plumbers?

The wikipedia article mentions Pimlico Plumbers 5 times. It is a company with a turnover of more than 10 million pounds. Max Clifford represents them, and many newspaper and TV reports on Martin mention them - see their website http://www.pimlicoplumbers.com/ and then "About us" and "Latest Press".--Kathlutz 7 March 2008

I wrote most of this article. The fact that Martin still works is a major part of his notability, and Pimlico Plumbers employs him. I don't see any publicity for the company here. CloudNine (talk) 16:23, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Not sure how to reply so I hope I am doing this right. There is something odd about this, very different from Fauja Singh, the so far oldest London marathon finisher. All the stories about Buster Martin seem to come from PR releases by Pimlico Plumbers. Here's an interesting comment by Ollie Williams, a journalist for BBC sport (see http://www.dayorama.com/archives/002570.html), about filming Buster jogging along the Thames: "On Thursday I went to Lambeth to meet a gentleman who has already reached his century, having apparently been born back in 1906. That does not seem to be stopping his bid to run the London marathon in April. It was a slightly odd filming session. This gent nominally works for a local company as a cleaner, but I can't believe he's retained primarily in that capacity. Given we were the third film crew to arrive that day (the second being a pair of Swedish cameraman producing a documentary on "extraordinary old people"), and given our subject was branded head to toe in company logos, it was difficult to see him as anything other than a walking PR stunt." Why not replace "Pimlico Plumbers" by say a major London plumbing company?--Kathlutz (talk) 18:00, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Because the job of an encyclopedia is to be specific and accurate as possible. The fact that Pimlico Plumbers is using him to perhaps advertise their services is irrelevant here. "All the stories about Buster Martin seem to come from PR releases by Pimlico Plumbers." By "the stories", do you mean the references cited in the article? CloudNine (talk) 18:19, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Because the job of an encyclopedia is to be specific and accurate as possible - yep, the article needs a lot of cleaning up and verification. But never mind. I start to feel sorry for an old man who is made to amble along for 13 miles in over 5 hours with a group of 4 minders in a half marathon event, finishing 2 hours behind the last proper participant (who was already very slow as far as "running" goes, with a finishing time of 3 h!) so that his boss can have him photographed with a race medal in front of a plumbing company van and a company banner. I just hope that Harmander Singh knows what he's doing. And it doesn't really matter how old these guys really are. They are in the 75-80+ age category and it's great that they can still move about for so long and so far.--Kathlutz (talk) 19:56, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
"the article needs a lot of cleaning up and verification". Are you sure? The above comments on this talk page would suggest otherwise. Nevertheless, I'm sure Martin chose to run, but it's beside the point with regards to the article. CloudNine (talk) 21:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Those of you who understand French, you just have to watch the French TV report about Mr Martin on the Plimlico Plumbers website (under Latest Press).--213.224.83.20 (talk) 07:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok, let's leave out his real name (i.e. name under which he is registered with the NHS) and let's not mention the missing birth certificate. But why not also include the story about Buster the Boxer (see http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/01/31/bustertheboxer_feature.shtml), quote: ""I've boxed my whole life and it's kept me young. All I need is my boxing, my work and the pub. The last proper fight I had was when I was 92 and some young fella tried to mug me. He came off worse than me. I had to go to the hospital to visit him." --Kathlutz (talk) 00:12, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand why you say Ok, let's leave out his real name -- but then I don't understand French. In the meantime I have added it to the article. --Michael C. Price talk 07:29, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I haven't had as much time recently to contribute to this article. You're welcome to add to it (the missing birth certificate is definitely an omission here). Thanks for digging up those references! CloudNine (talk) 01:48, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
I am new to Wikipedia editing and unfamiliar with its quality standards. I am intrigued by the question of whether what we are being fed is useful necessary information, entertainment or PR but hesitate to make that choice for others. I was wondering, for example, about Mr Martin's London Marathon charity, the Rhys Daniels Trust. It did not look like an obvious choice. I see now that Max Clifford is the patron of the charity and Pimlico Plumbers is a client of Max Clifford. Now it makes sense.--Kathlutz (talk) 15:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed comment about Martin Sheehan

I removed the comment about Martin Sheehan saying on the radio that he planned to trip up Buster Martin during his London Marathon walk. That's just publicity nonsense that has no value in an encyclopedia.--Kathlutz (talk) 09:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FHM columnist?

Is Buster Martin actually writing for the FHM on a regular basis so that you can say that his occupation is columnist (as the Wikipedia article does now) or was this a one off publicity stunt last summer? Anybody here who reads this magazine?--Kathlutz (talk) 09:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes are a mess

The footnotes are now a complete and utter mess. Besides, the value of all these newspaper references is doubtful. Many articles are just copies of other articles, not the result of a journalist's own research.--Kathlutz (talk) 20:59, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A tissue of lies?

It seems likely that most of this story is untrue.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3740118.ece

'Mr Martin is an employee of Pimlico Plumbers, which is represented by Max Clifford and has an entire section of its website devoted to its oldest employee.' Max Clifford is of course responsible for fabricated stories as 'David Mellor wears Chelsea strip to bed', and 'Freddie Starr ate my hamster'.

'His wife, Iriana, he said, died in the mid-1950s, yet there is no record of her death. Among the 17 children he claimed to have fathered are Roberto, now 87, Rodrigues, 84, as well as triplets, Georgina, Georgia and Giselle, but The Times could find no record of their births. Mr Martin said that they had moved abroad. Guinness World Records was advised: “There is also downside risk associating Guinness with a questionable claim . . . more than just his age is in question, as ‘Buster’ Martin ‘likes to tell stories’.” '

It seems likely that the entire section labelled 'Biography' is a fabrication. How many of these are the tales of an old (how old?) man:

  • Martin says that he picked up his nickname "Buster" at age three for "whacking a priest on the nose"
  • Martin was thrown out of the orphanage at the age of ten "for eating too much and growing too fast".
  • 17 children
  • He met his future wife, Iriana, from Tonbridge, Kent[6], at the age of 13 (she was 12). They married a year later in France.

Is he aware that the legal marriage age in France was 15 for women, and 18 for men since 1804, until 2006?

Are there any army records? Has anyone met any of the alleged grandchildren?

How is it that he served in both army and navy? Is this usual?

I would suggest that all the 'biography' is BS. The only verifiable facts are about his documented modern achievements. 82.31.164.67 (talk) 00:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

From GRG: "In fact, a cursory glance raises a lot of red flags: he has declined reporter's requests for his first name; he claims to have been born in France (outside the reach of UK birth registration, hence); he has provided little family details (names, places of birth, year married, etc). The bottom line: if a claim looks too good to be true, it probably is. The lack of transparency is disturbing. Anyone who is really the age claimed and wants attention for it, would go out of their way to prove it...Buster's attempts to avoid even releasing his first name make me believe that he is a fraud...of course this means we can expect him to be around for years, and a potential future scandal (the reporters will only burst the case after they've done everything to build it up...remember Walter Williams of Civil War fame?). " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.31.164.67 (talk) 00:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

The newspapers love his stories, and judging from recent letters published on the internet, so does the majority of readers. The question is whether Wikipedia should present these unverified stories, gleaned from the media, as fact. Think about it. The following comment from a reader is perhaps as close to the truth as it will ever get: "It was reported in the South London a few months ago that Buster Martin fought off 3 armed muggers and then gave chase. If you believe that, then yes, of course, he is 101 - and I am the King of Spain. Buster drinks in my local and he has often kept us amused with his stories. For example, when he was in the Boer War he...........". (the Boer War ended in 1902). He tells stories, maybe from his life, maybe from the lives of people he once knew, maybe total fabrication, and people enjoy listening to him.--Kathlutz (talk) 17:14, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
The question is whether Wikipedia should present these unverified stories, gleaned from the media, as fact. Yes, we should report them; that is the function of Wikipedia. No, we should not report them (or anything) as fact. To report them as fact, or not the report them because we believe them to be false, would be to judge content, which is forbidden. Verification is not the function of Wikipedia. --Michael C. Price talk 11:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Army records?

Martin claims to have served in the British Army and Navy for 35 years, as physical instructor and/or weapons instructur, and claims to have been a member of the renowned Grenadier Guards. Such a splendid record should be verifiable. Anyone?--Kathlutz (talk) 11:41, 29 April 2008 (UTC)