Talk:Broadcasting in East Germany

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Broadcasting in East Germany article.
Article policies
Did You Know An entry from Broadcasting in East Germany appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 22 February 2006.
Wikipedia

Contents

[edit] Categories, Merging and Translating

Hi User:Redvers I put the category:censorship on this article.. I know you will decide if it is appropriate or not.. I am impressed with the quality of article and time it took from first day on Wiki.. Can you do a translation and merge of the en and de versions of Apartheid? , in DE and EN ?

Cheers Gregorydavid 06:33, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] West Germany

ARD/ZDF had a large audience share in the GDR but how widely was DFF viewed in West Germany ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.5.105 (talk • contribs)

It was available across the eastern half of the FRG, but was in Secam colour rather than PAL, and the programming was terrible compared to the west. Therefore, you could say it was available to perhaps 20 or 30 million people in the FRG, but watched by a tiny fraction (it wasn't as good as ARD, it wasn't in colour and it wasn't on cable - three reasons to reduce the audience to a tiny interested minority). I think the article makes reference to this. ➨ ❝REDVERS❞ 19:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
30 million seems far too much. Due to geography, many major population centres of West Germany were not able to watch it (reverse situation from East Germany). Watching East German telly was most common in West Berlin. Anorak2 10:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
"the programming was terrible" Was this just the news/political programming or did it apply to entertainment programming too ? And was this the widespread concensus or just a POV Is there any reason why cable systems in the west did not carry DFF but eastern systems (apparently) did carry ARD and how widespread was cable anyway ? 80.229.222.48 10:48, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Virtually all programming. I've no idea if this statement has consensus at large but I could find plenty of citations for it if needed; however, things said on a talk page don't need citing - only stuff that goes into the article. Cable systems in the west mainly didn't carry DFF because there was limited demand for it and space was at a premium. Some may have carried it, but I can't find evidence of that (which is not to say they didn't). Eastern systems did not carry ARD services at all. It was over-air traditional RF reception of a neighbouring country's programmes.   REDVERS ↔ SЯEVDEЯ  11:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Disagree somewhat. The non-political content of DFF was not universally regarded as "terrible", I think this is POV and can't really be argued. They had feature films (including Hollywood productions and loads of the ever-popular German pre-WW2 movies), self-produced series, imported series (I remember watching Fawlty Towers on East German telly, imagine that) etc. Nowadays the productions of DFF have somewhat of a cult following and are being repeated regularly.
Concerning cable: East German telly was available on West German cable systems in areas where it was available terrestrially, but probably not much beyond. West German telly was available on many East German systems since the 1980s, but not all. Western TV channels were the main point of establilshing private cable systems in the first place, so virtually all of them had it. Availability on "state run" systems varied, some had it but some others didn't. Anorak2 14:32, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

(ri)Anorak2, you're doing a great job picking holes in everything I say on this talk page. You are aware that this is just a talk page and not the article itself? If you have concerns about the article, please fix them (sources are most welcome), but I'd like to request that you stop trying to pick a fight with me on this page over items that aren't in the article and thus are not worth you fighting over. Thanks.   REDVERS ↔ SЯEVDEЯ  19:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Huh? I'm not trying to fight with anyone. I just have this page on my watchlist and whenever I see a statement that I know is wrong or exaggerated, I try to correct it or put it into perspective. It didn't occur to me that it's always the same person whom I correct until you pointed it out. :)
My motivation is to stop misconceptions from spreading. As this page is readable worldwide, but the number of people who have memories of East German television is limited, it's important that misrepresentations be corrected. I'm currently too busy to write much in the articles, but a word on a talk page takes less time and there's always a chance someone reads it and takes the time to word it "properly" in the article.
Sorry if this offends you, that's certainly not my intention. But some of the things you say really are wrong. Anorak2 07:54, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Should the article not include a list of popular/well known programmes on DFF ? 80.229.222.48 08:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maps would be nice

"despite placing high-power transmitters in border areas, the GDR could not penetrate the whole of West Germany" Did ARD also deliberatly place high-power transmitters along the border or was the widespread reception of their television services in the GDR purely as a result of "unintentional overspill" ? How about a map of "the two Germanies" indicating transmitter locations and how far into each territory reliable cross border reception was possible ? 80.229.222.48 15:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Someone did a map recently: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild%3AArd-reichweite-ddr.png I would like to insert it but I don't know the syntax for embedding images from other wikipedias. Anyone? Anorak2 07:48, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use of SECAM colour

It is often stated that the use of SECAM colour in most Eastern bloc countries (including the GDR) was to discourage people from viewing Western programmes (which being in PAL would have appeared in Black and White on a SECAM set) even though colour TV's were scarce (and presumably expensive). However various Wikipedia articles mention that many people had converters or adapted TV sets to enable them to view the Western broadcasts in colour. How were these obtained given that one would assume that (state owned/controlled) shops in the East wouldnt have sold them and smuggling from the west was practically impossible ?

One would imagine that even for electronics enthusiasts a DIY convertor would have been difficult to produce given the difficulty in obtaining components (and books explaining the workings of PAL)

So how did they do it ? 87.112.88.106 15:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually state-owned shops in East Germany did sell dual standard PAL/SECAM sets starting about mid-1970s, both domestic as well as (very rarely) Western produced ones.
East Germans could also legally buy dual standard sets from the West through Intershops or through a dedicated mail order service, provided they had Western currency. Finally they could receive them as presents from western relatives. No need to smuggle.
DIY conversion of SECAM-only sets may have existed, obtaining the hardware was of course an obstacle but certainly doable if you had the currency. I know about DIY satellite reception who had similar obstacles.
I'm not aware of "outboard" PAL->SECAM converters from pre-1990. There are some from after 1990 targeted at owners of SECAM-only sets after all the transmitters in East Germany had been converted to PAL.
You can safely assume that in the late 1980s single standards SECAM sets were rare in East Germany, because almost anyone who owned a colour set at all would have made sure it could receive PAL.
The remark about discouraging people from watching Western programmes is perfectly valid, but only for a specific period (50s/60s). In later years western reception was increasingly tolerated, as the domestic production of PAL/SECAM TV sets demonstrates. The state-operated cable TV systems which started to emerge in the 80s even carried Western programmes in many places. (The ones built by private initiatives did anyway).
Incidentally, black&white sets sold at approx 2,000 Marks (East) as late as 1989, domestic colour sets approx 6,000 Marks. An imported Sony colour set I once saw was 8,000 Marks.
Hope this answers your question. Anorak2 12:49, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Very interesting but how many days average wages did it take to buy a colour TV ? 80.229.222.48 08:38, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


Average wage was around 1,000 Marks per month. The minimum wage was something like 400 marks, anything above ca. 1,500 marks would be considered "high salary". The minimum old age pension was 315 marks. 213.73.115.222 15:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

By the way, some of the wording of the current article sounds quite biased. Apart from some information lacking, that needs to be fixed. Anorak2 10:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Conspicuous Aerials/Antennas

Surely in order to receive Western television in the GDR (other than in places very close to the border) one needed a rather large rooftop antenna pointing West. Were people not worried (particularly in the 50's/60's) about the Stasi seeing them (or was it a case of everyone having one) ? Did the Stasi ever try confiscating aerials or restricting the sale of high-gain types ? 80.229.222.48 08:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes there was a campaign in the early 60s where antennas pointed to the west were destroyed by brigades of the FDJ (state youth organisation), see Ochsenkopf TV Tower. I think I'll add the link to this page. Anorak2 13:01, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Came across a 1980's video link hereshowing some pretty elaborate recieving antennas !!!! 80.229.222.48 (talk) 13:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Cool thank you. Anorak2 (talk) 18:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding East German radio

I'm inquiring about this:

"The GDR also instituted a programme of jamming foreign signals, both shortwave broadcasts from international broadcasters like the BBC and local broadcasts from RIAS. A network of jamming stations was built covering the entire country. Although attempts to jam RIAS were soon abandoned as it was found to be impossible to do so effectively without also disrupting reception within West Germany, something which was outlawed by treaty, and running the risk of counter-jamming of East German stations."

Can this be elaborated on a bit, please? --Daniel Blanchette 19:39, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

One of the treaties between the four allied powers (UK, USA, France and USSR) at/near the end of world war two provided for the assignment of available broadcasting frequencies between their respective zones of Germany (and Berlin) and also prohibited any transmissions which would have interfered with reception of broadcasting services within neighbouring zones. Because radio/TV signals dont abruptly stop at geographic or political boundries it is virtually impossible to jam a neighbouring territories service without any degree of effectivness throughout ones own territoty without affecting recption in at least part of a neighbouring states territory as well. The probable result would have being the neighbouring states retaliating against each other s services to the extent that none of them could be recieved clearly. Despite these concerns there were occasional attempts to jam the radio stations RIAS and Radio Free Europe.80.229.222.48 15:00, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reunification

On 15 December 1990, the ARD's Das Erste channel took over the frequencies of DFF1 Did ARD retain all the former DFF transmitters ? given that ARD was already widely available in most of East(ern) Germany surely this created a lot of unnecessary duplication ? 80.229.222.48 (talk) 19:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Initially all transmitters, and of course duplication did occur. But you also have to keep in mind that in many parts of East Germany reception of ARD was only possible with ridiculously large and complicated aerial setups and marginal reception quality. The takeover of East German transmitters eased these difficulties a lot.
Duplication is sometimes desirable as different transmitters serve different regional versions of ARD, so it remains that way in many places until today. In Berlin where I am, the former East German transmitter was handed to a new commercial stations after a few months, so duplication has ceased.
Nowadays many transmitters are going digital, so it's less of an issue. Anorak2 (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)