Talk:British humour

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[edit] US POV

The second paragraph in this article is useless, and clearly written from an American POV. It's completely redundant and should either be packaged off in its own section (perhaps some new 'International Reception' piece at the bottom), or just plain removed. (note: please stop deleting valid criticisms, Planetary Chaos)

[edit] Content concern

The article seems to be mostly a list of British examples of humor instead of describing what it actually is like. Though looking at these articles are fine and dandy, it would be nice if somebody would actually explain the general characteristics of British humor to the average reader so he/she does not have to look up every article in the list. Thanks ahead of time!

Not discussed is the general view of British Humour - for example when the French say 'British Humour' they mean basically not funny! - I believe this is because I dont understand it personally - but then again I am biased as I am British myself.


Article currently says:

"The Absurdity and banality of everyday life typified by the Goons, and Monty Python."

Well, plenty of absurdity there, but banality? For banality, first one's off the top of my head would be One Foot in the Grave and Hancock and probably others if my head wasn;t full of vodka right now. Any further bids for banality? In fact Withnail & I is a good one for both, but that's just my strong prejudice. --bodnotbod 20:40, Jun 25, 2004 (UTC)

Id add Jeeves and Wooster.

And what about Mr. Bean and Black Adder? Krupo 19:42, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] History of British Humour

Article to follow. Watch this space!--217.205.245.235 12:07, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Change to English Humour

All of the examples of British humour in this article are English, is there and argument to change the article to English humour?


The Beano and The Dandy, and publisher D C Thomson are all Scottish. Lumos3 19:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


Ok then the vast majority are English, there are no Welsh or Scottish comedians or sketch shows mentioned

Musungu jim 05:01, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


And??? Just because they are made in england doesn't mean they're not appreciated in scotland

And its wonderful that English comedy is appreciated in Scotland, just as Benny hill and monty python are appreciated in the United States, but this doesnt change the fact that its English comedy, performed by English comedians

So does anyone disagree that it should be changed to English Humour?

Object The humour described here is universal across Britain. Calling it English humour is just a case of the English claiming the whole British culture for themselves. Lumos3 20:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Also Google results for "British humour" = 178,000 "English humour" = 94,000. Lumos3 12:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Object Just because the actors in a show are english doesn't mean that people from the other home countries don't have the same british sense of humour... ARTooD2 00:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Google results for british humour = 12,700,000 English Humour 20,100,000

Lumos in England British and English have ALWAYS been the same thing. Can you tell me how English comedians making comedy in England for an English audience makes it British humour? If there was an article American humour that included Friends, FRasier, Seinfeld, M*A*S*H and Cheers, it would still be called American Humour despite the fact people all over the world enjoy these shows. My point is that this article should be renamed English Humour, and a seperate articel be created for Scottish humour, with examples of Scottish comedians and shows

Musungu jim 08:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The humour this article describes is enjoyed all over the British Isles. There is nothing to stop you starting an article called Scottish humour or Cockney humour to describe those genres. But how would English humour differ from British Humour since the two have come to mean the same thing. You can try to start a seperate article but they will probably end up being remerged.
Also
Google results need to have quotes in the search key or you are just counting every article that contans British and humour anywhere on the same page. So we get:-
"british humour" = 182,000 "English Humour" 106,000 British spelling
"british humor" = 268,000 "English Humor" 162,000 US spelling - Lumos3 12:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

My point is that it wouldn't be different because this article is about English humour and its examples. Changing this to English humour would on the whole be about changing British to English. And again, it doesn't matter if these shows are enjoyed in Wales and Scotland, it doesn;t change the fact that they are English shows, in England by and for English people. The seperate Scottish article would include shows and comedians from Scotland (chewin the fat, billy connolly, the crankies etc.)

Musungu jim 08:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

This discussion has lead into where the boundary lies between Britishness and Englishness, which is not an easy one to answer. For most of the last 200 years the two have been the same and English and British have meant the same thing for most people. If a separate English identity is re-emerging (see English people) then the world may differentiate the two. At the moment as the Google searches show most people say British humour and I suspect that those who say English humour take the words British and English to be synonyms. Wikipedia reports the current usage and the world as it is and is not a tool to create a sense of English identity. Lumos3 08:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought the discussion was about where the boundary between British and English lay, in the context of an article about national humour. Its not that an English identity is re-amerging, so much as it is being clarified and seperated from the idea of 'britishness', taking most of that identity with it. I agree that most people in England and around the world do take English and British to be synonymous, but, in England at least, it isn't people confusing England and Britain and excluding Wales and Scotland, so much as people confusing England and Britain to the disregard of Wales and Scotland, that is, assuming Scotland, and especially Wales, are somehow part of England. I realise that Wikipedia isn't a tool to create an English identity, I can assure you that one already exists, but if it didn't Wikipedia would be a pretty narrow field to create one.
But returning to the article itself, you still havn't confronted the fact that this article already is about English comedy, performed by English comedians, for an English audience, and should therefore be called English humour.

My point is that its about British comedy enjoyed mostly by British people including those in Scotland and Wales as well as England. The only reason its sometimes called English is because of the assumption that England means Britain to many people. Lumos3 16:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You're the one whose confusing English an british! If all the examples of humour in this article where Scottish comedians, in Scotland, to a Scottish audience, what would the article be called?

86.130.175.7 10:28, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

instead of deciding to change the article name, why not change the content... there is little mention of stand up comedians or scottish, welsh and irish humour, just because its not written on the page doesnt mean it doesnt exist. richard wilson of one foot in the grave is scottish and it is mentioned. perhaps billy connelly, one of britains favourite comedians deserves a mention. chewin the fat, still game, karen dunbar, frankie boyle, rory bremnar, rhona cameron,ronnie corbet (i didnt know he was scottish) alan cumming (the high life),rikki fulton (scotch and wry, Reverend IM Jolly, Francie and Josie), meet the magoons, the krankies, fred macauly, only an excuse, rab c nesbit and thats just scotland, not even taking into account wales and northern ireland. 86.146.54.250 11:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ali G

Where is Ali G? Omphaloscope talk 13:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Is he British humor? I'd rather say he is what Americans call funny.

Although he is British, Sacha Baren Cohen isn't exactly British humor. --Fez2005 (talk) 02:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Swift/Gulliver

Shouldn't Jonathan Swift or Gulliver's Travels be mentioned somewhere? Swift was Irish, but... 83.130.111.190 06:42, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Beyond the Fringe.jpg

Image:Beyond the Fringe.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 01:31, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Self-deprecation

I'd personally say that self-deprecation was a hallmark of British humour - witness Frankie Boyle in his monologues about Scotland. Anyone else think it should be added? -mattbuck 02:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of non-English humour

I see no mention of Absolutely (TV series) (a Scottish example), or the ever-popular Father Ted, which surely merits mention here on British humour (made by Channel 4, popular all around Britain and Ireland...) as well as on an Irish humour article, which sadly doesn't seem to exist yet. 216.94.11.2 (talk) 18:18, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sketch comedy deserves its own section?

A Bit of Fry and Laurie is relegated to "Tolerance of, and affection for, the eccentric", hardly an obvious category for it, and That Mitchell and Webb Look isn't mentioned at all. 216.94.11.2 (talk) 18:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Is sketch comedy a typically british thing? I suppose you could say that, since it is a fairly standard thing for us... Meh, add it and see if anyone removes it. -mattbuck (Talk) 21:24, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, now I'm not so sure. The article is arranged around themes, and the more "pure" sketch comedies like Fry and Laurie and Mitchell and Webb could probably be added to quite a few of the sections; I don't want to put links to these two into lots of themes, and I'm loath to add Mitchell and Webb to something semi-arbitrary like "The embarrassment of social ineptitude" (where the semi-similar Peep Show is already mentioned). Maybe I need someone else to Be Bold about this. Robertbyrne (talk) 03:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC) (On a different computer and logged in this time, but the first comment in this section was mine).


[edit] Making fun of foreigners

The article says - "The Italian Job, film starring Michael Caine in which British criminals mock the Italian Mafia and authorities.

This is complete rubbish, and I removing it. The Mafia are portrayed as very sinister in this film and not mocked. See the analysis on Talk:The Italian Job (1969 film)#Charges of racism, sexism etc... Jooler (talk) 12:37, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] no mention of "Are you being served"

Are You Being Served? should be put in here someplace. --Ted-m (talk) 01:30, 5 May 2008 (UTC)